Bob Iger Reveals Plan to Invest $17 Billion on Disney World Expansion
During the 2023 Annual Meeting of Shareholders, CEO Bob Iger announced the company’s plan to invest a staggering $17 billion on Walt Disney World over the next decade. This post puts that number into perspective, discusses the possibilities for a 5th gate and other expansion during what could be a bona fide “Walt Disney World Decade.”
Iger’s statement came during his comments escalating the battle between the company and Florida, and got lost in the noise about that. Specifically, Iger said that Disney is “currently planning now to invest over $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years. Those investments we estimate will create 13,000 new jobs at Disney and thousands of other indirect jobs and they’ll also attract more people to the state and generate more taxes.”
By itself, this would’ve been a colossal announcement with a ton of fanfare and excitement from Walt Disney World enthusiasts. Instead, it has been, as noted above, been largely lost in the noise about the battle between DeSantis and Disney. There are undoubtedly good reasons for this, with skepticism about sincerity being among the biggest. So let’s start by addressing that…
We’ve long “warned” fans against taking at face value everything Disney says in marketing materials. The company is incredibly adept at corporate communications, masterfully employing wordsmithery to excite fans. Disney always stays on the right side of the puffery v. false advertising line, but most fans recognize this for what it is and weigh marketing materials accordingly.
However, this was not a press release, marketing material, or even the D23 Expo. Again, it came during the Walt Disney Company’s 2023 Annual Meeting of Shareholders. In this case, the setting matters a lot. SEC rules prohibit companies from fraudulent, false or misleading statements to investors. This prevents Disney or any other company from releasing reports with inaccurate data or executives from making knowingly false claims that analysts and investors might rely upon.
For its part, Disney tries to shield itself with a long disclaimer about forward-looking statements on its investor relations pages. As noted by Disney, this is consistent with the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995. There’s a lot of language there and it’s worth reading yourself, but the bottom line is that forward-looking statements are “made on the basis of management’s views and assumptions regarding future events and business performance as of the time the statements are made.”
Other lines indicate that circumstances and plans could change due to different strategic initiatives (including capital investments, which would apply here), execution of business plans or other business decisions, as well as from developments beyond Disney’s control (see March 2020 or Wall Street’s shifting sentiment towards streaming). Yada yada yada.
The point is that that are legal standards for forward-looking statements during investor calls; what’s said is the current plan but is subject to change as conditions evolve. In other words, you shouldn’t necessarily rely on an “announcement” about plans that are a decade out. However, it’s not total nonsense meant to excite and hype up fans, either.
In short, Iger would not make such a bold statement if he had actual knowledge that the company’s current plan was not to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the course of the next decade. Similarly, if there’s a plan to spend $5 billion on Walt Disney World expansion, he cannot “round up” to $17 billion in order to score points in the company’s fight with Florida. That would be worse than whatever shenanigans the former Reedy Creek board (and company executives) are being accused of supposedly doing before the new board took over.
With all of that said, I am not convinced that the Walt Disney Company will spend $17 billion on Walt Disney World in the next decade. There are several reasons for this, with the very first being that the company quite simply has too much debt and not enough liquidity to front-load spending.
This means that whatever the 10-year plan is for Walt Disney World, it’s necessarily backloaded. As anyone who has been around the block with the original “Disney Decade” or the DCA expansion or the EPCOT overhaul or…well, about half of the announcements at the last few D23 Expos…the more remote the timeline, the less likely something is to come to fruition.
My guess would be that the company’s intention is to switch gears and focus on Parks & Resorts once Hulu and ESPN are sorted out (bought and/or sold), the streaming segment attains profitability or at least stops hemorrhaging ~$1 billion per quarter, and some of the debt is paid down.
Some or all of those things pretty much have to happen before meaningful CapEx can be spent on Walt Disney World. That alone puts the start of this work in late 2024 or 2025. This doesn’t mean Disney won’t announce big plans earlier, but we likely won’t see significant construction on anything until then.
I’m still expecting a major announcement at the Destination D23 event this fall, and when I saw The Rock on-screen yesterday, my first thought was that he was about to announce the Moana Land at Animal Kingdom for real. (The actual news, a live action remake, was far less exciting.)
My skepticism is also shaped to a slight degree by a lack of specifics and variability. Again, Bob Iger said that the company plans “to invest over $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years.” He specifically used the term “invest” rather than “spend,” meaning that this is CapEx and not OpEx. He also said that the “investment” would create 13,000 new jobs at Disney, and that high number would not be attainable with normal OpEx.
Iger also said that the investment would be at Walt Disney World, not in Florida as a whole. Disney has projected that it’ll spend “up to $864 million” to build the Imagineering Lake Nona Campus, which will also bring 2,000 jobs to the state. Pursuant to Iger’s statement, those jobs and that spending are not part of these numbers.
It’s possible Iger misspoke about any or all of these things. I doubt that for a couple of reasons. As we’ve pointed out countless times in the past, Iger is meticulous and zealous at sticking to the script, and also is cognizant of what different terms mean. (“Knows what words mean” is not praise we’d be lavishing upon Chapek if he made this annoucement.)
More significantly, there almost certainly was a script here. Iger knew he was going to be asked about this, and he had an answer ready. There should be zero doubt about that whatsoever. (If you listened to the call, he was prepared for every single question–including the obscure one about Premier Annual Passes.) Not because the questions are scripted–they most certainly are not; just listen to some of the crazies on the call–but because Iger is that meticulous and knew what to expect. Questions about the Florida standoff and streaming content were inevitable.
Given all of the above, I think it’s fairly safe to say that actual CapEx investments totaling $17 billion are planned for Walt Disney World over the course of a decade starting in 2024 or 2025. It’s also fair to say that’s the most optimistic projection, and a lot could change, potentially impacting and reducing that number.
Then there’s the thing that will change: Bob Iger won’t be CEO. (Actually, that’s probably less certain than the $17 billion investment given his past precedent with contract extensions!) A new CEO always makes their mark on a company, and one of the easiest and most concrete ways to accomplish that is via theme park plans.
If that new CEO does not have a Parks & Resorts background, they might also seek to reduce that number and spend more elsewhere. (Another tangent, but I suspect this increases the likely of Josh D’Amaro being the CEO-in-waiting exponentially, as he’d provide continuity in these aggressive plans.)
With all of that said, we thought it might be worthwhile to put $17 billion in context to help illustrate what it could buy for Walt Disney World. Obviously, that’s a lot of money–especially when you consider the fact that the original Dino-Rama cost at least $437 to build. Its replacement will probably add a “million” to the end of that number.
We’ll start by putting this into the context of CapEx numbers for the Parks & Resorts segment as a whole, which includes not just Walt Disney World, but also Disneyland, Disney Cruise Line, the international parks, resorts, and more.
Rather than looking at the last couple of years, we’re going to discard those. Some of the reasons for that should be obvious, given the disruptions and cost-cutting that has occurred with the EPCOT overhaul. There’s also the fact that one development cycle has been winding down for Walt Disney World, while the new cruise ships have been contributing outsized costs.
Instead, we’ll look at 2017-2019. That was during the peak of the most recent expansion and occurred at a time (mostly) prior to spending on the new DCL ships. In 2017, the company spent $2.4 billion on CapEx for the domestic Parks & Resorts. In 2018, that number increased to $3.2 billion. In 2019, it peaked at $3.3 billion.
These are just the totals for the U.S. based Parks & Resorts, including Disney Cruise Line. There’s a separate line-item for the international parks (minus Tokyo), and the total costs in Hong Kong and Shanghai are shared by local operating partners.
The company attributed the increase in capital expenditures at the domestic parks in fiscal 2019 compared to fiscal 2018 to higher spending on new attractions at Walt Disney World, partially offset by lower spending on new attractions at Disneyland Resort. The increase in fiscal 2018 compared to fiscal 2017 was due to spending on new attractions at Walt Disney World Resort and Disneyland Resort, including Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge.
In an SEC filing last year, Disney indicated that the company planned to increase total capital expenditures from $4.9 billion to $6.7 billion. That whopping 37% spending increase would’ve been across the entire enterprise, not just domestic parks. Then during the most recent earnings call, CFO Christine McCarthy indicated that number would be reduced by $700 (to $6 billion), which was mostly a result of “timing shifts” on domestic parks projects.
The company-wide cost-cutting is another reason why fans might be skeptical of Iger’s plan to invest $17 billion on Walt Disney World in the decade to come. After all, the company has already reduced CapEx at the domestic parks and is cutting another $5.5 billion in costs.
However, an important thing to note there is that $3 billion of those reductions are coming from content, $1 billion of cuts were already underway when the announcement was made, and there are three waves of layoffs that are largely targeting employees at DTC, ESPN, and television networks. Josh D’Amaro already indicated that frontline Cast Members at the parks would not be impacted.
Additionally, the CapEx savings at the domestic parks aren’t cancelled projects, but rather (again), they are “timing shifts.” That means dragging feet on projects to shift the costs into the next fiscal year. (Anyone who saw TRON Lightcycle Run being built has already seen this play out in real time.)
So really, the actual impact to Walt Disney World is minimal, save for the delays. As with this $17 billion in new investment, there’s a reason why the parks aren’t being targeted for reductions: they’re the company’s biggest bright spot right now!
As for what $17 billion over a decade could buy, let’s start with what we think it will not buy: we (still) do not expect a 5th gate at Walt Disney World. This has seen rekindled interest in the last day, but we’re still highly skeptical for all of the reasons discussed in that post.
Of course, this could be wrong. If you’re just having fun doing blue sky daydreaming, have at it. From that perspective, $17 billion is conceivably enough for 5th, 6th, and 7th gates. That’s especially true if they cost as much as Tokyo DisneySea (~$4 billion upon opening in 2001) or Shanghai Disneyland (~$5.5 billion upon opening in 2016). If it’s the cost of Universal’s Epic Universe, Disney could build over a dozen new gates!
Back in realityland, a 5th gate at Walt Disney World probably would not cost that little unless it were done in the spirit of the OG Walt Disney Studios Park in France. Construction costs aren’t what they were in the early aughts in Japan or even a decade later in China. Disney doesn’t do anything nearly as efficiently as Universal.
On top of that, this is all of the CapEx over the course of a decade. Even if a new park could be built for $6 billion, that be a big chunk of that total, and would necessitate CapEx reductions in the existing 4 parks as compared to the last decade. Given that, there’s every reason to believe the plan is expansion to the existing parks rather than development of a new one (or two).
There’s also the fact that Bob Iger has specifically said he wants expansion. In fact, both he and Josh D’Amaro have held a number of interviews recently, during which both have discussed plans for the future, bullishness on parks, and desire for capacity-expanding additions. We discussed all of this in great length in Bob Iger Wants Big Expansions at Walt Disney World & Disneyland.
Again, Iger chooses his words carefully. If he had plans for new theme parks, he’d say as much. Instead, he has repeatedly invoked Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, Toy Story Land, and Pandora – World of Avatar as the blueprints for how Disney plans to expand its parks and “invest in increasing capacity.” There’s no need to speculate; Iger has repeatedly and consistently shared the plan, and it is not for a fifth gate!
With that in mind, what could that $17 billion buy in terms of expansions to the existing parks? Well, beyond working backwards from the above nationwide numbers for past CapEx and trying to remove what isn’t Walt Disney World, it’s tough to say. Disney doesn’t typically announce the cost of specific attractions or lands, so all we have are rumors and estimates of those.
As a general proposition, take whatever you’d expect a new ride to cost and increase that number significantly. The amounts spent by regional theme parks or even Universal are not even remotely insightful for the exorbitant expenses Disney somehow manages to incur. (To everyone who thinks the company hasn’t been investing money in Walt Disney World, you are wrong. The real question is whether they’ve been spending the staggering sums wisely.) Some of this is evident in the finishing and details, but definitely not all of it.
Rumors pegged the total cost of Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind at around $500 million (corroborated by Bloomberg), which would make it one of the most expensive attractions ever developed. Some estimates put the entirety of Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at $1 billion (each); that was prior to completion, with development costs shared between the coasts, and before Star Wars: Rise of the Resistance was delayed. It would not surprise me in the least if each Galaxy’s Edge ended up costing closer to $1.5 billion when all was said and done.
Back in 2010, the Los Angeles Times reported that each version of the Little Mermaid dark ride would cost $100 million, which was viewed by fans as a staggering sum at the time but now seems decidedly average. Radiator Springs Racers reportedly cost over double that by the time Cars Land was finished. (The entire DCA overhaul was originally billed as costing $1.1 billion, but ballooned far beyond that.)
Outside of the United States, we have a better idea of specific attraction and land costs because other parks actually announce them. There’s been a lot happening in Japan over the last several years, and OLC releases specific budgets in its annual reports. From that, we know that the Tokyo Disneyland expansion that included Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast, Fantasy Forest Theatre, and a Baymax spinner cost approximately $750 million US.
Of that total, it’s safe to say that one-third went to the Beauty and the Beast trackless dark ride. Perhaps more. If Walt Disney World could get a few dark rides of that caliber for $250 million each, they should! Animal Kingdom, EPCOT, and Disney’s Hollywood Studios could each use a high-quality family-friendly people eater.
On a similar note, there’s Fantasy Springs at Tokyo DisneySea. The total investment on that port and its accompanying luxury hotel will be approximately 250 billion yen, or around $2.3 billion US. This makes it the most expensive expansion for any existing theme park ever. (It’ll also allow Tokyo DisneySea to reclaim the crown as the most expensive theme park ever built.)
Fantasy Springs will feature four new family-friendly rides, three restaurants, retail, and a hotel. Three of the new attractions will be boat rides, which is fitting for Tokyo DisneySea. It’s unclear how lavish the rides will be, but we’re expecting at least two of them to be E-Ticket attractions. The remaining attraction is much smaller-scale.
There’s also the all-new Space Mountain coming to Tokyo’s Tomorrowland in 2027 at an approximate cost of 56 billion yen. This is going to be a $400 million US attraction, and speculation strongly suggests it’s going to use the Cosmic Rewind ‘story coaster’ ride system, minus Marvel. (That checks out given the cost!)
Finally, there’s Treasure Cove at Shanghai Disneyland, which includes the most expensive opening day attraction at that park (Pirates of the Caribbean: Battle for the Sunken Treasure) and cost a reported $450 million US. It’s unknown what newer additions like Toy Story Land (definitely not as much) or Zootopia Land (probably about as much) cost.
That should offer a pretty good idea of what’s possible with $17 billion. Most notably, at least some of that is consistent with D’Amaro’s D23 Expo presentation, during which he discussed early concept explorations for Magic Kingdom and Animal Kingdom. This included a replacement for Dinoland USA at Animal Kingdom, and potential expansion opportunities including a Zootopia Metropolis and Moana Mini-Land.
With the Zootopia Land wrapping up at Shanghai Disneyland and opening later this year, it makes sense that elements of that would be cloned elsewhere to reduce costs. (It’s unlikely that Shanghai has an exclusivity window outside of Asia, as there’s no need. Plus, their version of Soarin(g) opened one day before the EPCOT incarnation.) With the new Moana live action remake, the odds of a Moana miniland also increase.
That presentation also included a bold proposal for Magic Kingdom growth, albeit with shaky specifics–that portion was much more ‘blue sky’ in what it could entail. That presentation looked at Magic Kingdom Expansion Possibilities “Beyond Big Thunder” and showcased possible Coco, Encanto & Villains lands.
While there was initial excitement among fans, that quickly soured due to a lack of specifics. The positive sentiment gave way for skepticism about these possible plans, especially in light of Disney’s not-so-stellar track record in building things that were “firmly” confirmed at past D23 Expos.
I have no clue what specifically is on the horizon for Walt Disney World, but I think expansion at the two ‘kingdoms’ consistent with those teased plans, plus a new family-friendly attraction or two in Disney’s Hollywood Studios (lots of underutilized space and a top-heavy ride roster) is likely.
Personally, I would love nothing more than to see a second phase to the EPCOT overhaul that includes Journey into Imagination, but I won’t let my desires cloud my judgment as to what’s likely. Disney might deem EPCOT “done” at the end of 2023.
Everything else will likely be less exciting. There’s no way Walt Disney World goes through another development cycle without adding significant hotel and timeshare capacity. (Unpopular opinion: Disney absolutely should build more resort capacity. They have pricing power and there’s no shortage of demand. Fans who claim growing crowds are due to Disney’s construction of hotels are wrong, making the fairly obvious oversight of forgetting that off-site hotels exist.)
Infrastructure costs also aren’t cheap, and some of the numbers I’ve heard for recent roads and other work are shockingly high. I doubt Skyliner expansion is being seriously considered, and I certainly hope another boondoggle like the NextGen/MyMagic+ initiative isn’t. Disney needs to build actual attractions, not waste money on smoke and mirrors.
Ultimately, our view is that it’s time for the persistent pessimism to give way to optimism when it comes to the future of Walt Disney World. We’ve been bullish for months, dating all the way back to our D23 Expo post mortem, which went against the grain and expressed a ton of optimism–both in the plans despite their nebulous nature and Josh D’Amaro as a leader.
A lot has changed since, but our sentiment and the underlying reasons for it remains the same. It also helps that Chapek is gone and both D’Amaro and Bob Iger have repeatedly expressed bullishness on big expansion at Walt Disney World. Sure, we still don’t have concrete plans, but all of these teases would not be happening if this were purely bluster or good PR.
Obviously, actions speak louder than words, and it might be hard to take these claims at face value given all of the scaled back plans, cancelled projects, and the fact that it took how many years to clone a short roller coaster in an empty warehouse. That’s fair. There’s also the reality that Walt Disney World continues to outperform, and investors have begun to take notice of its success. This coupled with Wall Street souring on streaming means Disney may finally start to bet bigger on its theme park business.
In light of all that, it truly feels like we’re standing on the precipice of the next big development cycle that will once again start at Animal Kingdom (just like the last one!) and play out in this same fashion with major new additions to each park coming online between 2026 and 2031. Let the Walt Disney World Decade begin!
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What is your reaction to Bob Iger’s announcement that the company plans to invest $17 billion on Walt Disney World in the next decade? Think this can be reconciled with the near-term cost-cutting or the company’s debt load? What potential plans or projects have you most and least excited? Anything you’re hoping does not end up coming to fruition? Do you agree or disagree with our assessments? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
First billion to be spent on a team and extensive computer models housed in a lavish building which would have the sole purpose of finding more ways to bilk Disney fans out of their money.
I agree….much like FDOT trying to “fix” i4!
Iger = Reign of Destruction
Chapek = Reign of Terror and Fear
I agree that a fifth park is unlikely. Whenever I hear speculation about it my question is always, what would the theme be? WDW has a castle park, Epcot, an animal park, and a studios park. What else could they do? It seems to me to make more sense to add attractions and lands to the parks that exist.
One word: Marvel / MCU
Too much in the asset bank without theme park execution.
I’d like to believe they could remove the Star Wars themed areas and bring them together in one area, but not even Apple has that kind of money.
They have set up 14,000 more hotel rooms, one major and two minor parks in the next 30 years as per the Reedy Creek documents. They desperately need to address customer satisfaction before the Genie is too far out of the bottle to recover.
Villains Park aka Beastly Kingdom — that’s what the 5th park, if it ever is made, should be in my opinion. Give it bigger coasters like you see at places like Cedar Point and give it a more adult-oriented Halloween Party.
Jaded is my best description…..Iger packaged existing plans as new 17b in spending for park expansion. “There are undoubtedly good reasons for this, with skepticism about sincerity being among the biggest”
WDW having 1b in outstanding bonds….to what, what’s there to show for it? Universal is doing much better with much less, with ONLY the revenue they bring in. Disney is poorly managed financially and operationally.
Out with snake oil salesmen Iger and D’Amaro.
Just add some simple, themed extra rides and entertainment, maybe a half dozen in each park within the next year to ease capacity issues. Is there really a need to spend 6b at WDW if not for a new park? Who is skimming the cream off that top?
This all sounds familiar to me because what I do for a living involves forecasting and tracking mainly capital spending for a large utility company. We get to “recover” revenue based on the amount of capital on the books. So a few years ago the company implemented a plan to aggressively increase the capital spending. It was hard to imagine back then how exactly we would spend all of those billions, but we did and continue to do so. The $17B over 10 years is close to what we are projecting, which works out to about $1.7B per year. Not sure what Disney is planning, but it could be replacing current assets as well as building new. I would love to see the details of it. To me, it’s good news in that there will be new things to look forward to in the future.
One has to suspect they’ll let Epic Universe have its day in the spotlight in 2025. From that point on, I anticipate major investment in new WDW lands and attractions. Epic Universe and its inevitable impact is nothing Disney can simply shrug off.
Internationally however, there is still a lot going on with every single resort getting major investment in all new lands that will all open in the next 24 months or so. Sure, the Asia parks are not wholly (or even partially in Tokyo’s case) owned by Disney, but the fact is major expansion continues abroad.
Tom, I’ve read your columns for years but never commented. This article though cannot pass by without being fully praised! Your insight, as an objective fan and someone with a deep understanding of the Walt Disney Company as a business, makes your column a priority reading for me. I can’t thank you enough for sharing your viewpoint!
I’m starting to share your optimism, Tom! I’m sure at least half of that $17 billion is going to things outside the parks (hotels, roads, etc.). New monorail cars would be nice. You’re probably right about no Skyliner expansion being considered but I wish they would; it is by *far* my favorite way to get around WDW when you don’t have a car.
That figure is high enough that it makes me fairly confident we will actually see some version of most of what was announced at D23 which is super exciting! I do hope these lands aren’t just E-tickets but also provide some balance of smaller scale attractions and food (and shade!)
I realize this is a WDW review discussion board and not necessarily a forum in which to voice opinion, particularly about events that have already occurred and there is nothing to be done about them now. But, the door here has been opened and I’ve walked through it.
What struck me almost more than any other was your comment, Tom, about the possibility that Epcot is now “finished” by the end of 2023. Epcot as a whole most certainly needed attention and some areas required overhauling; about that there was no debate. I was saddened, however, about some of the choices. I wish Disney would have kept the World Showcase exactly that: a showcase of the (distinct cultures of) the world without turning it into another potential Disney Exposition. I miss the Maelstrom in Norway. As much as I enjoy Frozen, there is nothing uniquely “Norwegian” about it; nor is there anything distinctly “French” about Remy nor Beauty and the Beast. (For that matter, there is not much “Mexican” about the Three Caballeros either which started it all – but I’ll remain silent about that one. )
As marvelous as the Moana Journey of Water has promise to be, I don’t believe Epcot is the place for it. And the idea of an Aladdin attraction in Morocco could just send me over the edge. There are many other locations on property where Disney characters can (and should) make their debuts.
However Disney decides to invest its $17 billion, here’s hoping they don’t ‘Disneyfy’ Epcot’s World Showcase any more than they have already.
“…and not necessarily a forum in which to voice opinion, particularly about events that have already occurred and there is nothing to be done about them now.”
Well, you’re wrong about that. Not like I never take the opportunity to go off on random tangents! 😉
I take your point, and felt the same way many years ago (see: https://www.disneytouristblog.com/cant-let-epcot-go/)
Then there’s the realist in me, who realizes that times are changing and so too are guest expectations. What newcomers want and what old school EPCOT Center fans want are two different things, and there are far more of the former than the latter who visit the parks (even if we are louder!). With that in mind, my hope is that Imagineering finds ways to make lemonade out of lemons, integrating concepts that may not be perfect fits in the best ways possible and addressing weaknesses. (A lack of rides in World Showcase is most certainly a weakness, and it’s safe to expect all such additions to feature characters…so which ones ARE you willing to accept?)
Perhaps my biggest complaint is that there’s no comprehensive 10-year plan mapped out for Walt Disney World in advance, with needs identified for each park and IP additions chosen on the basis of thematic fit and cohesion. Instead, it seems everything is done more impulsively and without thinking about the bigger picture. Several of the current and upcoming additions would’ve gone differently if there were a long-term plan for all 4 parks.
Not even at individual parks! I doubt anyone actually suggested to open up a new land at Hollywood Studios in 2018 and another in 2019.
I would like to see some sort of ride for each country represented in the World Showcase. But it should stick to the theme. I don’t think Epcot is the appropriate park for Moana. Maybe if there was a Polynesian Pavillion yes it would belong, but otherwise I feel it should have gone to HWS.
“Then there’s the realist in me, who realizes that times are changing and so too are guest expectations. What newcomers want and what old school EPCOT Center fans want are two different things, and there are far more of the former than the latter who visit the parks Then there’s the realist in me, who realizes that times are changing and so too are guest expectations. What newcomers want and what old school EPCOT Center fans want are two different things, and there are far more of the former than the latter who visit the parks.” You’re absolutely right about that, Tom, and I get it. I do. My point is that World Showcase ought to inspire. Maelstrom in Norway inspired my wife and me to visit there – and we did (and it was one of the best trips we’ve ever taken). Frozen, though wonderfully engaging and entertaining, would not have offered the same provocation. Same with Germany (which for the time being remains unadulterated); we visited there too – I doubt a Snow White attraction would have motivated us to turn our sights on Rottenburg and Bavaria. Still, if it is “what newcomers want” as you say, then by all means …
Don’t get too excited. I’m guessing a lot of that $17B will be in infrastructure investments– road and transportation improvements (some sort of transition away from buses to a more ESG friendly version, whether EV buses, new light rail, etc), power grid / utility investments (take a look at what the average solar farm is costing nowadays) to make it more “green”. Disney increasing their ESG score is a good way to score points with activist investors who make up a lot of the big institutional money managers currently, and who listen in on financial calls like Iger was talking at. Add in a new hotel, finishing refurbs on existing projects like Epcot, Magic Kingdom, a retheming of Dinoland property in DAK, and you’re through $17B over 10 years pretty fast, all within “Walt Disney World”.
Disney has already been making a ton of infrastructure improvements and investments over the last ~7 years, to the point that that probably aren’t many more to undertake that would be “invisible” or unfelt by guests. There certainly is not more to do in the next decade than there was in the last. The costliest projects would be a monorail fleet replacement and/or Skyliner extension.
The overwhelming majority of investors want to make money, and are not activists. To the extent making money and being more green can occur simultaneously, investors are for it. But I suspect some of the practices that have gained momentum in the last several years will be abandoned, revealed as ZIRP phenomenons.
The most important thing in the long run about the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District is that it will continue to pay for those infrastructure improvements the Reedy Creek Improvement District paid for in the past. DVC hotels will continue to pay for their own infrastructure; while any possible non-DVC hotel rooms will need up front CapEx that won’t be made back quickly, most will leverage existing infrastructure like Gran Destino. (Why build more monorails when you can put a resort in front of Epcot, or maybe near the TTC?)
I will just be optimistic- hoping they do a fifth park and also expand the other parks where able. I just hope its something that is realistically finished when my children are still children (not likely)
Please, please replace the Monorail fleet. They are two decades past their planned lifecycle.
Hey Iger? Why don’t you spend some of those billions on restoring Imagination and Figment? Bring back Dreamfinder and retheme back to the original ride concept. It’s the least you can do for the character you now use as the Icon of Epcot!
It’s the least they can do and it would presumably generate healthy ROI in merchandise sales and who knows what else! Figment has proven to be bona fide theme park IP as valuable as the characters from their movies and shows.
After what happened with the Figment popcorn buckets I bet Iger is definitely on it.
Bob Iger is steering the ship well here. Mild criticism of the governor, whilst ensuring that criticism can’t be weaponised as “woke”, or politicised. Disney’s lawyers have pulled a master stroke, making the new RCID / CFTOD board look foolish. Even if (when) the changes are challenged in court, it will take years and give plenty of opportunity for a less adversarial governor to be elected. Dangling the $17B figure reminds the state of what’s on the table – perhaps with a hint of what they are putting at risk.
Clearly De Santis and Chapek (glad to see the umbrella photo wheeled out again) rubbed each other up the wrong way, and Iger has another couple of years of placating ahead. Something he can do in his sleep.
Let’s hope he also puts some effort into preparing D’Amaro to take over. Disney has enjoyed being viewed differently from other companies for many years. People have a special place in their heart for Disney, something Universal will never attain. To undo the damage – some might say betrayal – of the Chapek reign, Disney needs to act differently from other companies. That means showing genuine interest in making the parks special, then watching the profits flow as an almost secondary objective. Iger gets that. I think D’Amaro does too. James Cameron demonstrated it with his insistence on excellence or nothing for the Avatar franchise. I would argue that most corporate CEOs do not. Overheads, sales, and margins are metrics that are easy to measure. You can’t map sentiment in a bar chart. If you don’t get it, you just don’t get it and no spreadsheet will help you.
When we visited WDW on honeymoon in 2000, we were blown away at the difference in quality and atmosphere. Sure, Disney could have eked out more profit from us, but then we wouldn’t have returned multiple times. Here’s hoping Disney return their focus to excellence in their theme parks and entertainment at a price point that doesn’t make it a one-and-done. That way they return to rebuilding a generation of regular visitors who then watch their movies, buy their merchandise, and take their children for a cruise on their ships.
I will stay optimistic that hes actually wanting to make plans, and that the current plan is that JOsh take over as ceo in a timeframe similar to whats announced. Iger may extend once, but he will not be there for the decade. With that said, comments are wow. The one thing other than drastic costs differences that Disney does better than Comcast/Universal. I love both parks, and visit both at least once a year. But Disney’s attention to detail on everything they do is far superior to universal. Super Mario land, great, walk 10 steps away and it could be a denny’s. A lot of people point to Tron vs. velocicoaster, which is fair, but hundreds of amusement parks in the country can pour footings, add some props and add a coaster in a year. Universal has a great coaster with velocicoaster, but at the end of the day its a coaster, not an attraction like cosmic rewind that pushes the envelope and is totally immersive. I’ve followed plans on Epic, it looks fantastic, but I wouldn’t say its theming is better than animal kingdom. At the end of the day, if you want thrills and an amusement park feel go to Universal, if want a Themepark you go to wdw.
Disney really needs to unload some debt. Selling off Hulu and ESPN could take a major chuck out of their debt. So much so that it would be safe to say they could easily spend 17 billion in 10 years. Likely though if thats all at wdw their totall investments across just the US parks will be somewhere near 25 billion over that spand. Time will tell if they will have a buyer for those streaming/entertainment sectors. I have a feeling that Apple will be a major player in these spaces, that or amazon. Clearing the way to get Disney back at what they do best, parks and family entertainment. But only time will tell.
Rollercoasters like Velocicoaster have an audience. They are intense and fun, but many people will not ride them. We just went to UO for the first time and I noted the significant difference in wait time for Hagrids VS Velocicoaster. First VC is not as child or grandparent friendly as Hagrids. My mom would never ride VC and the average child under 7/8 can’t ride it and many under 10 won’t even if they’re tall enough (my kids did though). Then there is theming like you mentioned. VC is mostly just a coaster. There are a few cool thematics, but nothing compared to Hagrids. Similarly Disney’s coasters are much more beautiful and/or thematic than something like VC. It would be amazing if Disney built something in line with Hagrids, but it would be un-Disney to build something like VC. Epic Universe will be Epic. But when you walk in the coaster that greets you will look like a coaster. It isn’t going to be hidden in a mountain or an indoor show building. Disney is different.
Sounds like they need to buy the rights to Jurassic Park, a fine demonstration of the intersection between human and animal. Alas, I will have to to to Universal and ride the River Adventure alone since my wife is a hater.
The idea of a Zootopia land sounds fun to me, but not within DAK. I agree that it doesn’t fit thematically, even if it “makes sense.” It’s such a unique park experience but I don’t see Moana having a giant footprint with Journey of Water being used at EPCOT. Seems like that could have been a noteworthy inclusion in a Moana or Polynesian style area of DAK.
I agree with what you say about Polynesia, they should have kept the Journey of Water to be an educational walkthrough about conservation in DAK like the other lands’ wildlife trails, instead of wasting it at Epcot. A flume ride and spinner would have rounded the new land out nicely.
Zootopia can go in the back, where Rafiki’s Conservation Station is – they can retheme the train to get there into the one they have in the movie (and like Hogwarts Express). It would be a good idea for the little kids, and removed far enough from the main park not to interfere too much with the cohesiveness of the overall theme.
While WDW is taking 5 years to open TRON & retheme Splash Mountain, left the WDW railroad closed for 4 years!, is putting a Holiday Inn (not really but sort of) next to the beloved Poly, is taking 4 lifetimes to finish EPCOT construction (slight exaggeration again not really) Universal Studios has opened Volcano Bay, Super Nintendo World (Hollywood), built the amazing Velocicoaster (2 yr construction), the astounding Hagrid’s Magical Creatures Motorbike Adventure (less than 2 yr construction), is building a new park (Epic Universe Orlando), aggressively moved to greet Brightline train guests at an Epic Universe stop and in general is moving rapidly to get things done. PLUS, Universal is willing to sell me a Premier AP (AP sales at WDW?? Ever??) that involves a nice valet person taking my car & parking it for FREE! And FREE unlimited express pass at some of their hotels. Amazing value. Disney is simply not aggressively seeking to astound, amaze, innovate, and provide family entertainment for a value anymore. Thats Universal’s job, and they are doing it really, really well.
Too bad that $17 billion dollar investment won’t bring back the many long term Disney fans who have been alienated by the nickle-and-dime money grubbing that Disney has done over the past 18 months or so. There is no longer a “Disney Bubble” that you were in when staying on site, and things that used to be free are now either eliminated (Magical Express) or moved to an inferior paid option (Genie+). Seriously, how much more revenue did charging for Magic Bands bring in? How much money was saved by eliminating the Magical Express? In the overall scheme of things, actions like this I suspect will end up costing many times the piddling amount of revenue they bring in, in lost good will and lost loyal repeat customers. This is why my family cancelled our planned 10 day stay at Animal Kingdom Lodge and rebooked at Universal. Yes, Disney World is spectacular (we’ve been there many times before the pandemic), but they no longer treat their visitors as valued guests. Sure, pent up demand will keep attendance high for quite some time, but they will eventually push it over the edge by using their guests as ATM machines.
Is $17 billion the price to pack it all up and move it to state with a less hostile governor?
Disney will outlast any governor in any state. Politicians are temporary, and always subject to change.
Investments, or lack thereof, are not going to be made on the basis of current elected officials.
What a silly statement
Here’s what I would do:
1. Sell ESPN
2. Tangled ride in Magic Kingdom
3. Zootopia ride in Animal Kingdom
4. Mary Poppins (UK) and Aladdin (Morocco) rides in World Showcase
5. Encanto and Big Hero 6 rides in Hollywood Studios
My guess is that about half of your wish list ends up coming true. Probably with slight differences in details/locations, though.
Every time someone types about zootopia in AK, I want to vomit. I can sorta get behind Moana if we call it Polynesia and out in some actual animals.
I suspect Joe Rohde was the saving grace for Zootopia not being seriously considered for Animal Kingdom earlier. He was that park’s high-profile and powerful champion, and reason Pandora was done with such a (shocking) degree of thematic cohesion. I think Zootopia is highly likely to happen at DAK, and with much less respect for the park’s themes. We shall see, though.
I was hoping Splash Mountain would be re-themed to Zootopia and Tiana would get a ride in the American pavilion. But since that didn’t happen, Animal Kingdom is the best fit for Judy Hopps in my mind now.
I hold out hope that with regime change they re-hire Joe Rohde and he saves Animal Kingdom. There is no way that Judy hops is a good fit. They shoehorned Pandora and managed to tie the conservation theme reasonable well, but that doesn’t exist in Zootopia.
100% agree. Every time I get excited about park expansion, I remember that this almost certainly means the end of DAK’s thematic superiority. I have rolled my eyes at the Epcot purists in the past (and that was my WTF during the shareholder call, when Iger said that, notwithstanding that the dirt pile that’s been there for years is still there, Journey of Water will be the conclusion of the Epcot expansion), but it looks like I’ll be shaking my fist from my proverbial porch right next to them as a DAK purist in the very near future. If I were CEO for a day, I’d be saying no to Zootopia, Moana, and Black Panther, and yes to Beastly Kingdom (including non-IP completely original attractions that would give Imagineering the flexibility to incorporate DAK’s message in moving and educational ways).
I find the pushback against Zootopia in Animal Kingdom a bit amusing. It’s a lot better fit for that park than Dinoland.