Reimaginings Inside the Park and ‘Beyond the Berm’ Expansion at Magic Kingdom
CEO Bob Iger and Parks Chairman Josh D’Amaro have teased expansion possibilities for Magic Kingdom in the last few months, from ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ to development in the footprint of the park and plans outside the berm. This post discusses possibilities, including New Orleans Not-So-Square alongside Tiana’s Bayou Adventure as well as Coco, Encanto, and Villains lands in the longer-term.
Earlier this week, D’Amaro was interviewed during the JPMorgan Global Technology, Media & Communications Conference. (The same event where he indicated Disney would take a $300 million loss on Star Wars: Galactic Starcruiser.) Among other things, he was asked about expansion plans for Magic Kingdom and how Walt Disney World could grow capacity. D’Amaro said that management and Imagineers are already at work on improving the guest experience at Walt Disney World and adding capacity in several ways.
When asked specifically about Bob Iger’s plan to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World, D’Amaro doubled down while also clarifying that the amount did not include the canceled Lake Nona creative campus. He pointed to the last D23 Expo and mentioned “ambitious plans that to continue to grow these theme parks” and shared why he’s excited about the future for Florida…
In particular, D’Amaro mentioned castle park expansion plans on both coasts: “We have plenty of opportunity within these existing footprints to optimize–to find ways to increase capacity of existing attractions within what we call the ‘berm.’ TRON is a good example of building additional capacity. With that said, and this is sometimes a misconception, but we have plenty of opportunity outside of the berms of those theme parks to continue to grow pretty aggressively at Walt Disney World, at the Magic Kingdom.”
After a discussion of DisneylandForward, D’Amaro circled back to expansion of the castle parks: “We have both internal opportunities to grow capacity and create new experiences, and opportunities outside of the berm to essentially expand the size of these theme parks.”
It’s not really clear from his quote, but TRON Lightcycle Run is actually added capacity that’s mostly outside of the ‘berm’ or existing boundary of Magic Kingdom. Part of why that project was more complex than it otherwise might’ve been was the series of flyover walkways to facilitate crowdflow and take guests over the Walt Disney World Railroad. Unlike a reimagined ride or redeveloped area, TRON was actual expansion.
It’s the same idea with ‘Beyond Big Thunder.’ Our expectation is that most Magic Kingdom plans in the medium-term will actually expand the physical footprint of the park and increase capacity. Unlike the other parks, Magic Kingdom needs more physical space in order to meaningfully increase attendance. That’s precisely why Beyond Big Thunder was/is plausible in the first place.
In the near term, it’s likely that we’ll see reimaginings and redevelopment at Magic Kingdom, or what D’Amaro called optimizing existing footprints to increase capacity. This is already happening with Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, which replaces Splash Mountain, albeit not in the way that D’Amaro characterized it. We aren’t going to rehash the well-documented details about Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, and this is not intended to ‘relitigate’ that reimagining.
Setting all of that aside, that “optimization” probably won’t actually increase Magic Kingdom capacity in a meaningful way. Splash Mountain did not have underutilized capacity, so it’ll go from being a popular ride to being a popular ride–a lateral move from a capacity and crowd-absorbing perspective.
If anything, Tiana’s Bayou Adventure will induce new attendance, adding to demand and potentially worsening crowd levels. That’s typical of marketable additions, and is also or would also be the case with Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind and TRON Lightcycle Run absent externalities (e.g. pent-up demand, broader economy, etc). The difference with EPCOT additions is that park, as a whole, has plenty of underutilized capacity–inducing more demand isn’t an issue whatsoever at EPCOT.
One thing that has not been officially announced by Walt Disney World is further area redevelopment for Tiana’s Bayou Adventure. This is something that could optimize or expand park capacity, depending upon how it’s executed. Imagineers have already hinted that this is on the horizon during the last D23 Expo when they let slip that they were working on Tiana’s Palace Restaurant for both coasts.
Tiana’s Palace Restaurant has since been officially announced for Disneyland (that’s California concept art above), with work underway to convert French Market into it. It’s possible that the Walt Disney World version of Tiana’s Palace Restaurant wasn’t announced at the same time because it wasn’t actually greenlit, and won’t be happening. However, there are a lot of reasons why this still makes sense–and we’re betting it’ll happen.
I’ve heard absolutely nothing about a miniland for Tiana’s Bayou Adventure and am not aware of any credible rumors that it’s happening. Nevertheless, it seems like a no-brainer to convert Pecos Bill Tall Tale Inn & Cafe to Tiana’s Palace Restaurant. If Tiana’s Palace is coming to Walt Disney World, that’s pretty much the most logical option. An expansion adjacent to the mountain itself isn’t workable, and putting Tiana’s Palace at a resort isn’t as practical. (Even if it would be perfect at Port Orleans French Quarter!)
It’s not like Pecos Bill needs more to make it a draw (its location alone makes it one of the busiest restaurants in all of Walt Disney World), but there’s also minimal downside and decent upside to the change. Pecos Bill is also one of the highest-capacity restaurants in all of Magic Kingdom, and giving it a princess connection–as opposed to a character virtually no one recognizes–could help sell cupcakes, sipper cups, and other novelty items. In other words, Disney could increase the coveted per guest spending metric with Tiana’s Palace Restaurant.
Outside of that obvious reimagining, I hesitate to speculate about what else is possible. It’s probably safe to say that if Walt Disney World opts to reimagine Pecos Bill Tall Tale Inn & Cafe into Tiana’s Palace Restaurant, that won’t be the only thing they do. They’ll flesh out the area with retail and a character spot, at the very least.
As much as I hate to admit this, Country Bear Jamboree is on borrowed time. There are a number of reasons why Walt Disney World might want to do something with the beloved bear band. I love Country Bear Jamboree and will defend it until the end (if anything, I sincerely believe it has gained appreciation in the last few years, too!). But I’m also a realist.
Country Bear Jamboree is not going to exist in its current form forever. A decade from now, I’ll be satisfied if the Audio Animatronics bears simply still exist…but are singing different songs. That’s probably the best case and most realistic scenario, barring a catastrophe for the company, economy, or tourism tanking in a way that essentially causes the parks to freeze in time. (No damage inflicted, but also no development done–we call that the “Disneyland Paris Effect.”)
Annexing part of Frontierland for a new area would be savvy for a number of reasons. For one thing, common refrains from Walt Disney World fans have been “Princess and the Frog is not set in the frontier” and “there are no mountains in Louisiana.” Imagineering already “fixed” the second complaint by rounding off the top of Chickapin Hill to make it look odd and disguise its mountainous-ness, I guess. (Bang up job with the complaints everyone, definitely the outcome we wanted to see there!)
The next step is reimagining the area around the ride in Frontierland to make Tiana’s Bayou Adventure fit more seamlessly, and create a miniland. This is entirely speculative on my part, but I think an announcement of this area between now and Destination D23 in Fall 2023 is an inevitability. (Probably sooner, as work will need to start soon if it’s going to happen.)
With that said, a new Magic Kingdom miniland is not strictly necessary. Contrary to those common refrains, there is no “need” to add a bayou, New Orleans Not-So-Square, Louisianaland, or whatever it might be called so that Tiana’s Bayou Adventure “makes sense” in Frontierland. Walt Disney World plays fast and loose with thematic integrity, and has demonstrated a willingness to explain away inconsistencies with backstory and narrative frameworks.
Look no further than Tomorrowland in Magic Kingdom for evidence of this. What do monsters and comedy have to do with the future? What about family-loving aliens? There’s a lot that fans now accept because it’s established, but those additions were met with similar resistance in the aughts.
There are plenty more examples in EPCOT and Animal Kingdom, some of which actually ended up working surprisingly well. The point is that The Princess and the Frog‘s setting in 1920s New Orleans hardly precludes its presence in Frontierland. At least some of the complaints now are piling on from people who are against the Splash Mountain reimagining. Other quibbles are similar to past skepticism fans expressed that didn’t end up mattering in the end.
Personally, I don’t disagree with that latter and am a moderate stickler for thematic integrity. Nevertheless, Tiana’s Bayou Adventure would be accepted over time by the vast majority of Magic Kingdom guests. Past precedent indicates that there’s no “need” for a bayou or New Orleans Not-So-Square to make it work. (At least, from Disney’s perspective.)
In that case, there’s probably a good business justification for annexing part of Frontierland and turning it into a bayou or New Orleans area. For one thing, Tiana’s Bayou Adventure may not be a needle-moving addition on its own. Walt Disney World is marketing it as a new attraction and will continue to do so, but all third party coverage is going to include the words “Splash Mountain” and “replacement” or “reimaging.”
Marketing an all-new land makes it sound more impressive, and will likely move the needle more in capturing new bookings. The attraction plus Tiana’s Palace Restaurant, new retail, a meet & greet location, and whatever else could incentivize more people to take trips to Walt Disney World in late 2024 or 2025. That’s valuable, especially at a time when there isn’t much else to advertise as being new. (Doubly true if the country is still in the midst of an economic slowdown or recession.)
Beyond that, visitors from Louisiana are a huge demographic for Walt Disney World. In past winters, we’ve noted the prevalence of LSU and Saints shirts, with Mardi Gras in particular seeing a huge influx of Louisiana locals. People love seeing themselves reflected and represented in the parks, and a New Orleans Not-So-Square would likely fuel more trips and foster more affinity among the Louisiana delegation.
Depending upon your perspective, that might sound obvious or untrue. After all, how many Jerseyans complained about the inauthentic menu at BoardWalk Deli? True…but also a bad example since that deli is an abomination. Another example would be the Brazil pavilion in World Showcase being aimed at the growing number of Brazilian guests. (That also might seem like a bad example since it’s unbuilt, but only because that government made it untenable!)
So I guess you’ll just have to trust me on this one (or not). Even when they nitpick the accuracy, people embrace theme park representations of the places they call home. It’s a matter of regional pride.
Magic Kingdom adding New Orleans Not-So-Square is also about the only way to make sense of Imagineering’s many research trips to New Orleans. The Princess and the Frog already exists, and the Walt Disney Animation Studios team did research over a decade ago to ensure cultural authenticity. That work is done, and there’s a whole book about it. Tiana’s Bayou Adventure is based on the animated movie, and arguably doesn’t necessitate the degree of additional research being done.
The ride’s presence in New Orleans Square at Disneyland doesn’t account for a bunch of research trips, either. That land already exists, and is incredibly well done. All Imagineering needs to do there is incorporate the (existing) characters and details from the movie in tasteful ways that don’t disrupt the authenticity and charm of the land.
That really just leaves Walt Disney World and redeveloping some of the existing area of Frontierland into an area based on Louisiana. When it comes to that, a lot of research could be done. Presumably, the goal would be transitioning from an animated attraction to a depiction of the American frontier by way of early 20th century Louisiana. That would require not just details from the movie, but also the rich culture and history of New Orleans and beyond.
In the medium or long-term, expanding Magic Kingdom outside the berm makes a ton of sense. We’ve been bullish on the Magic Kingdom Expansion Possibilities “Beyond Big Thunder” since last D23 Expo, even as other fans expressed (completely understandable and valid) skepticism.
As has been discussed elsewhere, the initial excitement for the tease of Coco, Encanto & Villains lands quickly soured–positive sentiment gave way to cynicism about these possible plans. That’s totally fair, especially in light of Disney’s not-so-stellar track record in building things that were announced at past D23 Expos.
Within the next decade, we fully expect to be able to walk from Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to Haunted Mansion without passing Tiana’s Bayou Adventure. From our perspective, that beyond the berm expansion is less a matter of “if” and more “when” and “what.” Our expectation is that it actually will be some combination of Coco, Encanto, and Villains (but not “Cocoland” or “Encanto Land”). The better question is when and, frankly, that’ll probably be closer to 2033 than 2023.
Given how far into the future that is, how much things can change, and how long this post already is…perhaps it’s better if we save the ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ discussion for another day. Even with the constant refrain about $17 billion worth of investment at Walt Disney World, that still seems too tenuous.
There’s a lot to sort out in the meantime before that spending starts–from the future of streaming, potential ESPN and Hulu deals, 20th Century Fox acquisition debt, and the current standoff with the state. But those are short-term speedbumps and Magic Kingdom expansion is a long-term solution to an ongoing issue. It will happen.
Ultimately, my guess is that we get news later this summer about New Orleans Not-So-Square or whatever else is accompanying Tiana’s Bayou Adventure at Magic Kingdom in 2024-2025. The bigger wildcard is what, if anything, is revealed for Magic Kingdom at Destination D23 this fall.
We had been expecting Destination D23 to be a big event–and are still hoping that’s the case, but what the company is comfortable announcing could depend on where things stand in the Disney vs. DeSantis battle. Then again, both Iger and D’Amaro have had no hesitations in trumpeting the $17 billion investment and their excitement for the future in Florida, so maybe that’s not a big factor in the announcement calculus.
If all goes well, the decade to come at Walt Disney World could be bigger than the prior one. The current plan to invest $17 billion amounts to more than was spent on New Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, the EPCOT overhaul, new resorts, and a significant amount of infrastructure. (As previously discussed, a lot of money was wasted on things that didn’t come to fruition or were short lived.) If even more money is invested without the misallocations of resources, it could be a blockbuster decade for Walt Disney World. It’s just going to be at least a few years of waiting while the near-term speedbumps are addressed and construction commences.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What is your reaction to Josh D’Amaro discussing park expansion in the existing footprint of the park and beyond the berm at Magic Kingdom? Think this means New Orleans Not-So-Square in 2024? What about other redevelopments of existing areas? (Not discussed here, but there is definitely underutilized space in Tomorrowland!) Think this can be reconciled with the near-term cost-cutting, or would you rather not build anticipation for something several years out, or that may never come to fruition? What potential plans have you most and least excited? Anything you’re hoping does not end up coming to fruition? Do you agree or disagree with our assessments? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Highly recommend listening to today’s episode of the Town with Matt Belloni. He interviews Scott Gustin about a lot of these topics.
Personally I think Disney knows they must invest in the parks. The bigger question is whether the profit from the parks division is funneled into Streaming as that is so unprofitable.
I’d love to see the Villians land. It is such a great concept. I do think us Superfans are way more sensitive to thematic things and the average visitor does not care as much. Tom’s point about Monster in Tomorrowland, Guardians in EPCOT, people will just embrace new attractions.
” I love Country Bear Jamboree and will defend it until the end (if anything, I sincerely believe it has gained appreciation in the last few years, too!).”
FACT: Country Bear Jamboree is the best show in Disney.
That is the hill I am willing to die on.
100% accurate. Country Bear Jamboree is a national treasure and practically perfect in every way. To alter it in any way would be a travesty.
I will gladly join you on that hill.
Given the success of Yellowstone and other modern western-style shows, I’d not be surprised if Disney wipes away Frontierland just in time to miss a new IP wave of western-themed stories become vogue. To eliminate Frontierland would be a mistake. Splash Mountain stood as a bit of an anomaly, as the Brer Rabbit Tales were set in Georgia, though it was at least in the 1800s, Now we’ll have Frontierland segue into Jazz Age post WWI, Roaring ’20s New Orleans, the back to the Wild West with Big Thunder Mountain Railroad (and the WDW railroad…plus Tom Sawyer Island As to where to put Tiana’s , there are a number of things which could be done, it all depends on how ambitious they want to go. Replacing Pecos Bill is the simple. obvious route. A more ambitious option. Tear down Pecos Bill, build back over the strip of land that includes Golden Oak Outpost, putting in a new diagonal corridor separating the new Tiana’s from Tortuga Tavern. Parades would now enter from the side of Tiana’s.
Such a move is doubtful, IMHO because of the cost involved. I mention it because it would provide a clean break between Frontierland and the New Orleans area.
Now. obviously not in the 1920s. but New Orleans, once upon a time was often an important stopping point on the way to the frontier. People were known to travel to New Orleans and then take steamboats up the river to Missouri and make their way to Independence, MO, which is where wagon trains usually began their journey.
Utah’s NBA team has already proven the folly of trying to segue from the rugged Western frontier into the Jazz age.
“Utah’s NBA team has already proven the folly of trying to segue from the rugged Western frontier into the Jazz age.”
Literally laughed out loud at this.
It’s funny because it’s (mostly) true…but they would’ve won it all twice if not for Jordan! That’s more than can be said for my miserable Detroit Lions.
Tom, when we were at Disney last fall, we were in awe of the imaginerring at Galaxy’s Edge, but it seems like it’s missing more rides. Will they ever expand and add more rides there? Surely with all of the SW saga, there is fodder there for some other actual rides.
The only thing I could see them spending more money on in the future at SWGE is a dinner show. It’s not been a big enough hit to justify new rides at this time. Expansion will occur elsewhere at DHS first.
I’m all for growth and expansion at WDW, but MK should be the last park on their radar for that. DAK needs so much more and I’m not just talking about a replacement for Dinoland. They need more traditional attractions within existing lands that aren’t stage shows or walkthroughs that close early. There’s a reason why DAK is the park most often skipped on a vacation. DHS needs the same thing, less stage shows that only have limited showtimes and more family friendly attractions. and Epcot….D’Amaro, please don’t tell me you’re wrapping up Epcot’s overhaul. You haven’t even scratched the surface. There are so many areas in those 3 parks that need help BAD and there’s rumors about re-doing Frontierland? Prior to Splash’s closure, I felt Frontierland was one of the top lands at WDW. It doesn’t need to be altered. Splash, Big Thunder, Tom Sawyer, Country Bears, and some of the best atmosphere in all 4 parks combined. They don’t need to focus on an area that works! But there seems to be a huge dis-connect with what I like and what the majority of the Disney world visitors like so what do I know.
Nick, I agree wholeheartedly. Frontierland is my favorite land and would love to see it simply maintained and not altered. As you point out DAK is desperately in need of more attractions as are others. Epcot is like a quarter finished project to me.
Here here. To be clear – any expansion gets two enthusiastic thumbs up from me. But I sincerely don’t understand why they keep adding capacity to the park that least needs it. If we’re being honest, DHS and AK are really half-day parks at this point… wouldn’t it make more sense to add new lands there? Even from a guest satisfaction and Genie+ spending perspective… wouldn’t it help to have more LL availability at those 2 parks later in the day if you had more rides adding more capacity? Or how many families don’t visit all 4 theme parks and just focus on MK and then whatever else they can squeeze in. Wouldn’t it move the needle there if the perception among casual visitors was that DHS or AK were just as “must do” as MK? DHS popularity exploded after TSL / Galaxy’s Edge… isn’t that an exhibit A here?
For stuff like this I always assume that smarter people than me are working at Disney and making these decisions… but honestly I don’t get it…
“People love seeing themselves reflected and represented in the parks…”
Really? Is that a thing? There’s nothing in any Disney park I know about that reflects me or where I’m from, and I honestly can’t imagine caring if it did– or if I did care it would be a turn-off, not an attraction. I can see myself and my home reflected by simply staying there, without the expense of a Disney trip. Isn’t fantasy the whole point, to feel like you’re visiting people and places that are not only unlike yourself, but unlike anything in the drab old real world?
When I read that, I thought that was the weirdest comment as well. Very strange, I feel the same way.
I WANT to agree, as well… as a proud Chicagoan I have nothing but distain and contempt for any places outside my area that try to replicate any aspect my hometown (though thankfully it’s usually just chain restaurants serving pale imitations of deep dish pizza). But…readers of this blog are a savvy, educated, and self-aware bunch. I’m not sure those qualities are as prominently refected in the average WDW tourist family, who (like most average Americans) will usually seek the safe and familiar over the risky or exotic. I sadly believe Tom is actually right on this one, for the same reason I’m would bet current and “ex-pat” New Yorkers probably make up a disproportionately high percentage of visitors to the New York New York hotel/casino in Las Vegas.
Tom,
Any inkling of what Disney would do to add attractions or “lands” in AK? Would they consider expanding Pandora? Lately, it seems new rides are attached to IP/movies. I also enjoy cool stand alone experiences like Space Mountain or Rock N Roller Coaster or Dinosaur or Expedition Everest. The back stories with EE, Dinosaur, & RNRC makes us suspend disbelief and it feels like we’re part of the adventure.
The obvious option is demolishing Dinoland. During the “maybe someday” portion of his D23 presentation last year (the same part that teased the ‘beyond thunder mountain’ stuff discussed above), D’Amaro showed concept art of a huge Moana flume ride in the area formerly filled by Primeval Whirl, Triceratop Spin reskinned as a Kakamora-themed spinner, and Dinosaur replaced with Zootopia (presumably a copy/paste of what’s currently under construction at HKDL). There’s also a ton of open space behind KRR/Everest that could be put to use if they wish.
This just makes me sad. I like Frontierland like it is and am confused by how New Orleans fits into the theme. Wouldn’t Disney want to see if Tiana’s Bayou Adventure is actually popular before doubling down on a radical redo?
New Orleans *doesn’t* fit into the theme of Frontierland, but that’s not the point.
Disney had a log flume ride themed to swampy areas, filled with animatronic critters, and with a big jazzy riverboat finale (!!!). They wanted to replace the Song of the South content with a different IP while making *AS FEW ACTUAL CHANGES TO THE RIDE AS POSSIBLE*. Given that as the project’s starting point, Tiana is the very very VERY obvious choice.
I can certainly see why the trend is to reimagine/eliminate big chunks of Frontierland. I am still surprised that Tom Sawyer’s Island still exists. Happy it is so, but surprised.
I am thinking there is something bigger to the West of the Magic Kingdom is in the card. As is a major expansion beyond Tiara. Maybe a Hotel with an entrance to the park. Maybe a new park with a transition similar to Disneyland/CA In the past 5 years, Disney has increased infrastructure (Floridian Place converted from a 2-lane country road to a 4-lane highway and just this year, opened a new route to that road around the MK parking lot. They built the walkway from the Grand Floridian to MK which is tremendously underutilized because the boats and monorail are much faster. They also purchased more land in that area a few years ago. It seems to me that a new park and hotel complex northwest of the Grand Floridian are prime to utilize those roads, the land and the walkway. I have no insight at all, but the walkway/bridge and land purchase just feel like they are preparing for the future similar to what was done at Disneyland.
Like others, I see the perfect opportunity to link Tom Sawyer Island with Tiana and New Orleans – the Mississippi! Would give the identity issue to all states along that river too. It would need some sort of access beyond the rafts though. It’s a lovely spot on aa pretty day but so underutilized – which is probably why it’s a lovely spot. But then the Pirates link is also a good one, just in the other direction.
Honestly Disney just needs to give up on the idea of Liberty Square and Frontierland being separate areas, squash em together, and call the result “Rivers of America” or whatever. That can open the door for adding Orleans stuff around bayou, retheme Tom Sawyer Island (far more inevitable than CBJ going away, FWIW), and add whatever else they can think of to the area.
Also my bet would be on Tiana’s going into Horseshoe, not Pecos. That would actually add capacity.
Those are both incredibly good ideas–too good, in fact, to be what actually ends up happening.
With that said, I’d be sad to lose Diamond Horseshoe. I’m not really sure why, since it’s been a shell of itself for years and similar versions exist in almost every other castle park. (I also think it’d be a bit odd to have the restaurant so far from the ride, and with so many different things in between.)
I wonder if it’d be on the table to move Pecos to Diamond Horseshoe and then put Tiana’s restaurant in the current Pecos Bill location?
Liberty Tree Tavern has been using the Diamond Horseshoe as an extra dining room for years, so I’m not sure if they’d change that.
DREAMING HERE A BIT: Would it be possible to build a new land and have all the classics in that land?
A place for all the rides/attractions we love all together? Country bear, Splash Mountain, Toad’s wild ride,Great Movie Ride, 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea Submarine Voyage..etc
You just listed a lot of attractions that have one thing in common aside from being extinct: none utilize characters or IP that are popular on Disney+
Don’t get me wrong–I love those attractions and would love to see them revived, but it’s not going to happen.
The place you are dreaming of is called “YouTube”.
Being from Missouri, I definitely take pride in all the places in the parks with shoutouts to its history (and am floored by how many there are.) I think instead of moving a New Orleans “not-so-square” into Bear territory (Bearittory?), they should redo Pecos Bill and continue the theming up the corridor towards Pirates. That ride is theoretically supposed to start in modern day New Orleans anyway, and I think that’d blend well and give a nice parallel to Disneyland.
I was going to suggest something similar but leave Pecos Bill’s alone (the tacos are nothing special but it’s basically the only counter service restaurant at MK my family can agree on)! Put Tiana’s Place at Tortuga Tavern. It isn’t open all the time anyway. Maybe annex a little of Pecos Bills seating area if needed. And add the surrounding area to New Orleans “Square” too. The Golden Horseshoe can be a beignet stand. Maybe have a New Orleans jazz band (could even feature Louis if it must have IP) or other entertainment on the little stage where the Jack sparrow show used to be.
I also feel like reorganizing Frontierland, New Orleans “Square,” and Liberty Square into an “Americaland” comprised of these three mini-lands would make a lot of sense. But with a better name for the land. Maybe just Rivers of America would work as the land name, actually.
If they’re going to annex the area on that side, it definitely makes sense to take Tortuga Tavern instead of Pecos Bill. That truly is underutilized capacity, and given that the two locations share a building, kitchen, and seating areas, they could pull as much space as needed from Pecos Bill.
Pretty good idea!
Honestly? I feel like this is pretty frustrating. Forget “Be Fair to Florida” (not really). How about “Be fair to Florida parks not named the Magic Kingdom?”
Sure, Magic Kingdom sees a lot of demand. And yes, for many people it’s synonymous with Disney World. But if WDW really wants to solve the demand problem and distribute/drive guests better to EPCOT and AK, they should try using a carrot (make the other parks more interesting) and not a stick (limiting park pass reservations). Or if you must pick a park to add capacity where demand is high … couldn’t you please do it in Hollywood Studios, which has a (my opinion only, of course) terrible attraction mix and badly needs some B and C-ticket attractions? Not to mention that some of the IP being bandied about would fit in even better there than it does in MK.
You’re right on all fronts.
I still think we’ll get a Dino-Rama replacement announcement before ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ is confirmed, as Animal Kingdom is the park furthest removed from the most recent development cycle and its attendance dynamics are showing that it needs the most help.
As for DHS, it’s too bad they didn’t fix that when they had the chance during the lead-up to TSL and SWGE. Not that it’s too late now, but it probably would’ve been easier to sneak some B-C tickets (and refreshed stage shows, which are also badly needed) into those plans. It’s going to be more difficult now to pitch a $400 million (or however much) investment that will add needed capacity, but lacks attendance-inducing draws.
I know this was only a minor piece of this article, but this is the first time I’ve been worried about losing the Country Bear Jamboree. I always assumed that these “frozen in time”, classic but not hugely popular shows (Tiki Room, Carousel of Progress) would continue to exist in the one park where nostalgia reigns more than any other. Don’t take our toys away, Disney!
I fully expect to lose 2 of those 3 shows in the next decade. I don’t think we’ll lose the bears or birds themselves, but I think there will be new IP tie-ins of some sort.
Hate to be a debbie downer–really hope I’m wrong!
Wouldn’t Disney be hesitant to get rid of attractions that Walt personally worked on? They’ve tinkered with Tiki and Carousel over the years, so presumably they wouldn’t need much maintenance to keep them going.
Hopefully we won’t be subjected to movie versions of either of those soon 🙂
Newer readers may not realize that the Tiki Room was already DRAMATICALLY changed many years ago, when the awful obnoxious “Under New Management” show took over. It was only restored to the “original” show because a fire miraculously destroyed an Iago animatronic, but left the rest of the building unscathed.
As for the Country Bears, this may be heresy on a WDW-centric blog, but I lived in SoCal and went to Disneyland all the time as a kid, so I grew up on the Country Bear Vacation Hoedown. When I finally made it to WDW as an adult and saw the original CBJ – I was pretty disappointed by how lame it was. I’ve been to WDW enough times now to develop a secondary nostaglia for CBJ, but part of me would love to see it replaced with the Vacation Hoedown version of the show.
I believe I read somewhere that tiki room can’t be changed due to dole’s sponsorship. This may only apply to DL in California’s version. I certainly hope it’s true because I will NOT take kindly to changes to the tiki room! I’m still not recovered from that “under new management” debacle!
Maybe I’m getting too cynical, but after waiting years for the Giant Epcot Dirt Pit [TM] to be filled and still holding out a tiny spark of hope for Mary Poppins in Epcot (we need carousel horses on a track!), it feels like these kind of announcements are timed to deflect attention from other less happy announcements (like the Star Cruiser, financial warnings, etc.) and aren’t an indication of any real plans. It’s like Josh sat in a pitch meeting and then just reiterated those to try and reignite fan enthusiasm.
I don’t begrudge anyone cynicism, especially after the last few years. Plenty of reason for it.
I’ll just say that the ball really got rolling last September at D23 Expo and the timing there coincided with Wall Street souring on streaming and having renewed interest in the parks. Against that backdrop, the teases (or whatever you want to call them) felt like Disney trying to pivot quickly, but not having plans in place for aggressive park expansion.
For me, everything since then feels like an outgrowth or extension of that…but with a lot of speedbumps and obstacles along the way. I could be totally misreading it, though. Wouldn’t be the first time!
Hey now, Louisiana does have 1 mountain – Driskill Mountain (albeit just barely above the “height requirement”).
There ya go, then!
Personally, I’ve always felt like that complaint was grasping at straws…and I really hope it’s not why Imagineering opted to round off the top of Chickapin Hill rather than adding the cool boat stuck in a tree from the original concept art. (That could also be a hurricane code issue, and have nothing to do with fan complaints about Louisiana not being mountainous.)
Driskill Mountain has an elevation of 535 feet above sea level and about 240 miles north-northwest of the French Quarter. It’s not what you look for when you think of mountains.
My concern is that the company abandons the longer term investments in light of upcoming economic challenges. I know you mentioned short term speed bumps, and not losing sight of addressing long term problems but… EPCOT had (has) long term problems that Disney was going to address. In EPCOT’s case they hit a speed bump, and they abandoned a lot of the planned improvements. It’s probably a poor comparison given MK’s status as the most visited park in the world. I hope they go big and add new lands, truly add capacity (no more re-purposing existing attractions!) and I get to enjoy the new MK expansions with my grandkids at some point.
The flip side/silver lining there is that if/when economic challenges arise, the cost of construction will decrease and the speed with which projects can be completed will increase.
That only real obstacle will be the “fortitude” to build during a downturn. But they did invest during the COVID downturn–it was just on streaming instead of parks. I also think/hope they learned a lesson from the Great Recession–Universal built the Wizarding World of Harry Potter during that, and opened it (basically) right as the recovery began.
“Butterbeer sales helped Universal recoup its $260 million investment in The Wizarding World of Harry Potter – Hogsmeade in just six months.” – Google. I had heard Jim Hill make a similar statement that when Comcast was in the process of acquiring Universal and went through their books, they discovered butterbeer sales paid for the whole expansion within a year. One wonders why Wall Street ever soured on the parks. Probably just a case of the lemmings following the hot new thing – streaming.
Tom Sayer Island and much of the surrounding water should likely be included when considering making a change within the berm of the existing Magic Kingdom.
Keep the Country Bears!!
Filling in a portion of the Rivers of America seems like a foregone conclusion to me. That’s really the only thing that makes walking from BTMRR to Haunted Mansion (without passing Tiana’s Bayou Adventure) a possibility. I don’t think that requires losing Tom Sawyer Island, though. (I could see an overlay to that, but can’t imagine they’ll invest much on it.)
Tom, ancillary MK-area expansion, any idea on a Skyliner expansion, perhaps along the rerouted Floridian Way, tying in the new Poly 2.0/SoG/GF refurbishment/flipping more buildings to DVC?
I have heard absolutely nothing about Skyliner expansion since it opened. I suspect the initial “crash” put a damper on that, and then the closure happened only a few months later.
I’m skeptical that any Skyliner expansion would occur around Magic Kingdom. I do think there are other options, though. (There’s also no way it’ll connect to Disney Springs, before anyone asks.)
Really depends on how much of a “success” Disney deems the Skyliner to be, and I also have zero insight into that. I know that we love it, but our opinion doesn’t really matter.
I feel like the biggest obstacle to more Skyliner stations is the weather. Not being able to run them during rain/thunderstorms is probably a massive headache for Disney given how common mid-afternoon rain can be during the summer. (There’s a reason most of the actual rides are indoors and it isn’t just because that makes theming them easier.) But I would *love* to be wrong about this because when they are running they are awesome.