Disney World Still Plans to Replace Rivers of America with Cars Land.
Walt Disney World has filed its response to Florida’s Request for Additional Information, and it’s clear that Imagineering will not be reversing course on its plan to fill in and replace the Rivers of America with Cars Land in Magic Kingdom. This post discusses the latest in this months-long saga, along with what this could mean for closing dates and construction.
In case you’re unfamiliar with these plans, Walt Disney World announced two all-new Cars attractions in a reimagined area of Frontierland at Magic Kingdom during D23. Along with this, they officially announced Villains Land expansion at Magic Kingdom, essentially behind Cars Land, and between/behind Big Thunder and Haunted Mansion.
Subsequent to D23, Walt Disney World revealed that the Cars area will actually replace the Rivers of America, meaning that Tom Sawyer Island and the Liberty Square Riverboat will permanently close. This news let a lot of the air out of the tires from Walt Disney World’s otherwise blockbuster night.
The latest development concerns the saga of the South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD) permit process. The short of the back-and-forth is that Disney filed permits pertaining to stormwater displacement back in August, and SFWMD responded by requesting changes and giving Disney a deadline for those.
Following that, the SFWMD sent a letter warning Disney that its 10-day deadline to respond was fast approaching, and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District (CFTOD) intervened on Walt Disney World’s behalf to request a 60-day extension. The SFWMD granted the extension request, but only in part, offering a new deadline of January 9, 2025 as opposed to February for Disney to substantively answer SFWMD’s Request for Additional Information (RAI).
In the end, it won’t matter. Walt Disney World didn’t need until the provided January 9, 2025 deadline, much less the February one that was requested on its behalf by the CFTOD. Walt Disney World provided an extensive packet of information on December 19, 2024, which included a 23-page letter along with countless more pages of maps, plans, appendices, and updates to previously-filed documents.
If you’re really curious about all of this, head to the SFWMD ePermitting page and enter “407 Basin Stormwater Modifications” as the project name in the search. From there, check out the RAI Information drop-down. There’s a bunch of stuff there, including the aforementioned 23-page letter.
Part of the reason I’m recommending that you read the correspondence itself is because I, admittedly, lack the subject matter expertise to assess the quality and sufficiency of Walt Disney World’s response. Whether it adequately addresses the questions and concerns raised by the South Florida Water Management District is unclear to me. It appears to my untrained eye that it does in most cases, and kicks the can back to SFWMD for clarification in a couple of instances, but I very well could be wrong.
From what I can ascertain, there are essentially two angles from which Walt Disney World approaches this. The first is a straightforward matter of addressing the questions and concerns one-by-one, with concise answers and clarifying information. The second and more interesting approach is in attaching a Response to RAI from 2015 along with other correspondence from 1993. Disney incorporates those by reference into this 2024 RAI response, along with another letter from 2011 and the 1992 Walt Disney World Master Development Plan permit.
There’s a lot to unpack with all of this, but it appears that Walt Disney World’s assertion is that further analysis or scrutiny is not necessary or appropriate. That’s because, in light of these documents, the wetland lines are grandfathered-in. I suspect it’s not worth getting bogged down in the specifics of the permitting process and back and forth over the wetlands.
A deep dive into water management and assorted legal jargon probably is not why you’re here–it’s to know where this project stands. In a nutshell, Disney’s big move was “bringing receipts” to show SFWMD that a lot of its questions had already been addressed–a decade or few ago.
From a practical perspective, the key takeaway from these 23-pages and supporting maps and documents is that Walt Disney World has not altered course on its plans to remove the Rivers of America and fill in the waterway.
To the contrary, Disney doubles down on this and clearly outlines that they will be draining the Rivers of America and filling in the entire expanse with dirt to create a leveled and graded construction area. This is a necessary prerequisite for construction of the Cars Land expansion in Frontierland, and will also form the foundation for the next phase of work on Villains Land.
If Walt Disney World were getting cold feet about the Rivers of America plans following fan backlash, it would’ve been reflected in the permitting process with SFWMD. This sends the unequivocal message that it’s full steam ahead on Cars Land. That there will be no last-minute adjustments to salvage even a sliver of the Rivers of America.
For our part, this is what we’ve heard all along. That even though Walt Disney World didn’t anticipate the degree of backlash, no amount of complaints would cause a course change. That the value of the real estate, underutilized capacity, long-term upkeep costs, expense of alternate siting of the expansion, and other factors made this the only viable plan. (Don’t shoot the messenger–I’m just sharing what I’ve heard, not that I agree with it.)
Some other sites had reported the opposite. That Disney is considering going back to the drawing board. Or rather, that Disney was considering it. We mentioned this previously, noting that even though we hadn’t heard this, being dismissive of the rumors would be foolish since so many sources got the location of Monstropolis wrong in Disney’s Hollywood Studios.
At this point, we can pretty much close the door on the Rivers of America being saved. Again, everything I’ve heard since August indicated to me that the door wasn’t open in the first place, but this seals that. Disney has already endured the worst of the controversy, and they’ve held firm. Taking further steps in the same direction strongly suggests there never was an alternative.
The only hope there, as before, was that the South Florida Water Management District would reject Disney’s permits.
To that point, it still remains a vague possibility that the South Florida Water Management District still won’t be satisfied with Walt Disney World’s RAI response, and there’s more back-and-forth than anticipated. That could result in delays and costs spiraling beyond what was originally budgeted.
If anything, that’s the only thing that could realistically let the air out of the tires of the Cars land project: time and money.
I still do not view that as likely. To the contrary, I’d put the chances of this project getting the green light from the state more or less as conceived at over 90%. I’m just saying that if there is any basis for the Rivers of America being saved, it’s not in a change of heart from Disney, but rather, the SFWMD slow-rolling the project, and Disney shifting into a different direction as a result. In light of the RAI response, I’d put the chances at that in the low single digits.
As you’re likely aware, Tom Sawyer Island and Rivers of America have no closing date at present. Walt Disney World has only indicated that work will kick “into high gear” in 2025, but before then, that “guests will have plenty of time to experience the charm and nostalgia of Frontierland as it is today.”
However, Walt Disney World made that statement back in August and has been silent as to the Rivers of America future since. When offering a sneak peek at 2025 and letting fans know they’d have all year to experience DINOSAUR, Walt Disney World made no such assurances about the Rivers of America. In fact, they didn’t say anything at all. At what point has “plenty of time” passed?
Our guess is Easter 2025 at the earliest. That’s over 8 months for fans to say their goodbyes, which is longer than the average timeframe between booking and traveling. This isn’t to say that Rivers of America will close then…we just wouldn’t expect it any earlier than that. And it really doesn’t come down to giving fans one last visit. It’s more a matter of practicality.
To that point, Magic Kingdom might try to get through Summer 2025 before closing Tom Sawyer Island and the Rivers of America. Disney Starlight Parade is going to be hugely popular upon debut and will need ample viewing space during its opening summer along the promenade in Frontierland. Construction walls up on one side of the walkway would reduce viewing capacity. (See Construction & Openings Timelines for New Lands, Rides & Additions at Disney World.)
Starting the project shortly after Labor Day 2025 is also possible. That gives Walt Disney World all summer with the Rivers of America operating as normal, which might be necessary at a time when a lot will be down in Magic Kingdom. Park operations may not want even more offline–especially if that includes decreased parade viewing options or cuts into crowd flow (the waterfront promenade is an important parade bypass).
Also keep in mind that it’s not like this project gets approved, and walls go up around Rivers of America the very next day. There’s presumably a decent amount of backstage prep and site work that could be undertaken even before the waterway is drained. It’s also possible that Disney could install a coffer dam to preserve access to Tom Sawyer Island and the view of the Rivers of America for the entirety of 2025. (See photo above of the last time a coffer dam was used during a refurbishment a few years ago.)
They’ve done this type of thing before–and it could prolong the amount of time fans have to say goodbye to these areas while also reducing visual blight until it’s absolutely necessary. In such a scenario, the Liberty Square Riverboat would be first to close, and that would probably happen before the second half of 2025.
Ultimately, the back-and-forth on the SFWMD permitting process doesn’t really change a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. It does significantly increases the likelihood that the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island will be safe through at least Easter 2025. That was probably always the case (and I’d imagine Disney built a buffer into its internal timeline for permitting–it’s not like this is their first rodeo), but this just further cements it.
I’d take that a step further and predict that, you probably have until at least August 2025 to say goodbye to the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island. There seems like a pretty good possibility that Disney does backstage work first, and this serene scenery and access are preserved for almost the entire year–maybe into early 2026. I wouldn’t bet the farm on that and I’d plan a goodbye trip well before then if seeing the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island were a must-do, but my suspicion is that we have more time to enjoy these areas.
Of course, my real hope is that Imagineering goes back to the drawing board entirely and finds a way to preserve the promenade and waterfront. I can accept losing Tom Sawyer Island and the riverboat, I guess, but paving over that beautiful vista is a bridge too far for me. Hopefully fan feedback or a last-minute miracle can save it, but I’m not holding my breath.
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Your Thoughts
Thoughts on the Walt Disney World’s response to the Request for Additional Information? Hoping that there’s still a chance of changing the plans if Florida doesn’t approve? Excited or underwhelmed by the plan to replace Rivers of America with Cars land? Or, are you in wait and see mode with this? Do you agree or disagree with our assessment? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback—even when you disagree with us—is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
What a shame. we spend two weeks at WDW every summer. My kids, age 5, 10 and 13 always go to TS island and ride the river boat. Disney drastically underestimates the value of nostalgia. There is a line for every single ride at DW. even the mundane twin Dumbo flyers have a wait. Disney changes rides for the sake of change, NOT because noone rides it. Anyone who says differently is wrong. The parks are always packed. Doing away with the island and rivers is a slap in the face to Walt. Some core attractions should be off limits to “reimagineing.” Whats next on the chopping block? the Tiki room, small world, people mover? The one are of the park where you can relax a little and explore with your kids and they have to kill it.
I don’t want them to take out the ROA, the river boat or the island. I think it’s a huge mistake. However, I think a part of the frustration from folks is the slapdash plan and sloppy theming in that section of the park. I also feel like Disney was being very underhanded, and cowardly, in not being straight with guests at D23 about the location and what was being replaced. I kind of feel like they should’ve been ready to answer questions and explain the thinking behind the plan, especially if they’re so gung-ho about it. I live in CA and have been several times and I agree that Carsland in DCA is done really well and has wide appeal. It fits with the car culture roots of California and it’s much more than just a ride, quick service and merch shop. However, it’s also not the center (heart) of DCA, that is still a major water feature and I think that works. Looking at the concept drawings for MK, it just doesn’t seem like the same level of care and attention to detail has gone into it as with DCA’s.
Also, I wondered about the practicality of another (almost) totally outdoor ride/attraction area in the Florida park, considering the stifling heat and extended rainy season. Also, be nice folks, everyone has a right to their opinion and we can civilly “agree to disagree.”
What’s most baffling to me in all this is that Disney was caught flat footed by the fan backlash. This is without a doubt the most wrongheaded decision they have made in years, worse than charging for fast pass or eliminating magical express. This is decimating the heart of the park and one of the most atmospheric, to put in more thrill rides. How did they think fans would react??
Whoever made this decision was either does not get what makes Disney parks environments, rather than collections of rides, or just doesn’t care.
I simply do not understand the angst and frustration from those who are opposed to the changes being made at WDW.
I’m as nostalgic as the next guy but I have no doubt that WDW management understands nostalgia only creates so much excitement and does little to generate new business.
I visited the Magic Kingdom as a young adult the first year it opened. I was hooked! Since then our family has visited at least one Disney park each year.
In 2008 Wife and I began spending winters in Celebration, Florida. In 2011 we sold our home in Virginia and moved to Kissimmee, less than 20 minutes from Magic Kingdom’s World Drive main gate. We average at least 5 visits to Disney parks each month in 2024 weeks have made 103 trips to WDW. That includes visits to Disney Springs.
To get to the point, I am excited for the “upgrades” coming to Magic Kingdom, Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios. At age 75 I still look forward to new adventures. I have no desire to keep living in the past.
I’m done with Disney after this year. Wished I wouldn’t had re-up my annual passholder for another year so many things tore up and closed down now they are ruining the waterfront by taking it out, removing the beauty and the ecological part of the park for a cars ride it doesn’t fit in that area. After 50 years bye bye Disney.
Terrible terrible … Not only will this go into destroying the vibe , views, and atmosphere around probably the most cherished elements of the park, (Liberty square, River boat) but we lose that for … Cars … an IP that no one will care about in ten years. Not only that … they could and should have easily just updated the gasoline powered “Race Track” into Cars if they wanted to do anything. leave Rivers alone! man I hate this!
Disneyland implemented Cars beautifully. But it was new, not jammed incongruously into a space merely needing a refurbishment
Boo! Take the damn L!
I would have loved to see Tom Sawyer Island and Rivers of America saved. Re-themed if necessary. A 100 Acre Woods Pooh theme could have been amazing.
just put some actual effort into regular upkeep
Of all the ridiculous ideas Disney has had in the last few years, this is the WORST thing they could do. Disney was never competitive with Universal, or any other park. They are AMUSEMENT parks, Disney is a “THEME” park. BIG difference! Walking around that park without getting on a single ride, is still an extremely pleasurable experience, from the beauty of Main Street and it’s historic Victorian charm, to the beauty of the Crystal Palace, the Carousel, the Castle, Liberty Square and of course the Rivers of America and Liberty Bell, Disney has always had what no other park, a way to make you forget the world outside and pull you into it’s beauty and magic feeling. You are eternally a kid at Disney. You don’t get this at Universal or any other park. Disney was special, a place people went into debt to visit because there was nothing like that feeling. And now they are taking that feeling a way, a piece at a time. And eventually Disney World will be some abandoned park, overgrown with vegetation and broken memories. This is the dumbest move they could have ever considered. Attendance is already lowing now and it’s only going to get worse when they take away what we’ve always come back for. They’ve already ruined Epcot, and now the Magic Kingdom. I guess Disney has become the Queen with the poison apple. Uncaring and self serving but lose in the end.
I like this. It’s a very sad state of affairs that kids these days don’t read Tom Sawyer, Two Little Savages, Swiss Family Robinson, The Hobbit and others and actually be kids and use their imaginations. Instead, they have cell phones shoved in their faces far too early so their so-called parents don’t have to parent them…
The overwhelming public disagrees with you. Attendance just continues to grow and grow. You just wasted time trying to justify your subjective opinion like it was fact. Don’t blame Disney for getting rid of it blame yourself and other fans. If people took advantage of the areas and attractions tied to the river they wouldn’t be bulldozing it to replace it with something people will actually like. You are in the overwhelming insignificant minority.
I disagree with every single word you said. What an insanely moronic rant. You think your opinion matches the “fans” when it actually just matches a tiny insignificant group of vocal nerds on the internet. If fans used the attractions tied to the river they wouldn’t be bulldozing it with something people will actually like. At the end of the day- I love all the changes Disney is making and love that it upsets you. I am getting everything I want. You lose.
Amen i agree
Perfect description of WDW vs. Universal. True Walt Disney fans understand his dream and accomplishments. Unfortunately, the people running Disney today – have no clue in understanding Walt and his thoughts on creating a unique entertainment empire. BRAVO Tony.
Very well said Victoria. “Tom ellit” and “Chris stage” are obviously one and the same. Just laugh at his unhinged rant.
Beautifully stated, and agree 100%. What made MK different from any other park was that once one walked in, you were immediately transported to another world. Each land in the MK was made to immerse one fully into that vibe. My first time at WDW was on November of 1980. After that, no other park offered that “you can always come back home” feel. Mornings were spent in Tomorrowland. Noon into mid-afternoon was Fantasyland (for years via the Skyway). By mid afternoon we’d be in Frontierland. The mell of popcorn in the FL heat, the sound of the Liberty Bell horn, backed by the ocassional wolf howl from the Haunted Mansion, and the sounds from Big Thunder Mountain railroad and Splash Mountain…. The feeling was always there. The world kept on changing, almost too fast, but MK was continuity we could count on. After the Splash Mountain replacement disaster and TRON forever changing the skyline of Tomorrowland, this puts the final nail in the coffin. Clearly, Gen Z can cheer….but in another 20 years, they too will cry.
Well, I guess there’ll now be a new reason to visit Disneyland in California instead of WDW more often. At least so long as the river lasts there.
As I was reading, I thought “would the activist investor be destroying Rivers of America?” “Would the activist investor be getting rid of Jim Henson’s legacy” as far as I am concerned everyone is getting exactly what they asked for. Lord Iger does not care the least bit about what any of us think. The beady eyed narcissist could never hold a candle to Walt, neither him, nor his minions could ever create anything like what they have endeavored to destroy on their own merits alone. The shear amount of access they have to money they did not earn is uncanny. Now they are turning Walt Disney’s Disney World, “To all that come to this happy place welcome” into Lord Iger’s corporate theme park, “Where only people with deep pockets should come, because there is value here that we have not yet begun to charge you for.” Cars land, Encanto, Monster’s inc, Villains land, Coco (which will never come to light unless they make a sequel and he has a daughter because Iger hate’s boys and men) all scream ideas for a fifth theme park, however they would rather destroy what we are supposed to be offended by, according to story matters, than create anything new or exciting. Iger buys up I. P’s because they are creatively bankrupt. Liberty square, frontier land, and main street USA, will all be gone in the years to come. Soon Walt’s statue will be problematic and will be replaced by Iger and his fake job having minions. I found your blog looking for secret magic things people never see, the hidden details of ride que’s, hidden talking trash cans, and the phone that used to be in the hat shop. the magic feeling you had when arriving, being in the bubble, I have read books about just looking at the way you walk into the parks, the coming attractions, the credits to those who helped and contributed to Walt building his dream and creating a legacy. It is all gone, now it’s just drab corporate colors, faceless, soulless, writhing in politics and corporate monopolistic greed. This upcoming year will be our last time spending it in the bubble as I will not say we won’t go back, however maybe for a day, just because we are there I suppose, and definitely not to all the parks, plus we have been thinking about cutting down the initial stay this upcoming year as well, as everything will be being destroyed by the time we get there. I am done with caring about this place, they can and will do whatever they want, regardless of what the fans may want to see.
I disagree with every single word you said. What an insanely moronic rant. You think your opinion matches the “fans” when it actually just matches a tiny insignificant group of vocal nerds on the internet. If fans used the attractions tied to the river they wouldn’t be bulldozing it with something people will actually like. At the end of the day- I love all the changes Disney is making and love that it upsets you. I am getting everything I want. You lose.
Stop reposting the same ignorant crapola, troll.
I agree with every word you said. I’m a retired cast member who was at one time was a Jungle Cruise skipper, and worked on the Liberty Belle Riverboat and Walt Disney World Railroad. I’m proud to say I was a JC skipper before they went PC. Now they’re going to destroy the Liberty Belle Riverboat, and even during the time I worked on the WDW Railroad there have been rumors of WDW executives wanting to shut it down. Between the closure of the RR during the years long Tron roller coaster construction, only to have it closed again for the destruction of the Rivers of America- I could see it eventually being phased out.
Iger and his team of like-minded executives are all aboard the PC bandwagon. They could have come up with so many other options to put a Cars attraction anywhere else. As Walt Disney himself said about the Florida Project, “We have the blessing of size” in order to do all the ideas Imagineering could come up with. I’m sure Iger himself considers Walt Disney to have been politically incorrect. From their PC viewpoint it’s not too difficult to see how they came up with a paddlewheel steamboat attraction and “Tom Sawyer’s Island” as being unconscionable. To their way of thinking, it must be destroyed or 1/10th of 1 percent of the population will accuse WDW of being insensitive by promoting imagery of the Old South.
Much like disco, this STILL SUCKS! While there was always a slight chance of skating this through the water management process, the bottom line is that WDW was basically fully permitted to do anything they want with the formation of the PUD in 1971. Unless a change is a major departure from that agreement, it’s Disney’s property and they can do whatever they want with it.
“Much like disco, this STILL SUCKS!”
This is an all-timer. I need to remember and “borrow” this disco comparison for something I hate in the future (or for this).
For the record, I have no opinion on disco. It wasn’t “a thing” when I was coming of age…probably for the reason you’ve identified.
Hahaha, any time!
The one thing is that Tom Sawyer island and the liberty belle are only open for a few hours and close at like 7:00 or 4:30pm so I think that it’s a better idea not to keep them if they’re not running all day and only running on certain days
But wouldn’t it make more sense to update both the island and boat? Both these activities thrive in International Disney parks – why do they do so poorly in USA? Could it be Disney Corp wants them gone so they ignore them instead of reviving them?
I’d like to see the waterfront bridge and a portion of the river left in place. At this point, Tom Sawyer Island is a goner. They won’t keep it and Iger probably quietly finds it “problematic “ like so many other things of the past. The ferry boat could be dry docked for seating, snacks, and could even blow its horn occasionally for the atmospheric purposes. I’m really wondering about this new Villians land. Hopefully it does not follow the current “land” template of 2 rides, one with a virtual queue.
“I’d like to see the waterfront bridge and a portion of the river left in place.”
Strongly agree, and this is what I thought the plan was going to be before it was announced. Losing the back half of the Rivers of America was inevitable as soon as “Beyond” Big Thunder was announced.
As for Tom Sawyer Island being problematic, I haven’t heard that as an explanation for why this is happening. There are like a half-dozen reasons why, but that’s not among them. If that were a serious concern, it already would’ve happened with a very inexpensive and superficial refresh. Guess we’ll see, though. If it’s problematic, it’s problematic everywhere and will quickly vanish at the other parks, too.
We had been passing holders at WDW for 18 years, but finally stopped renewing in 2019, mostly because of similar moves by Disney to this. But this one really takes the cake. This strikes me as a middle finger to Walt Disney. This section of his “Castle” parks was so important to him. The story of the frontier and growing America that he was exc
Absolutely Ned! Everything this Disney Corp does now is eliminating Walt’s dreams. After being a Disney fan for over 70 years I am fed up with USA executives. My money and my children’s money will go international. Paris Disney and Tokyo Disney are keeping the dream of Walt’s alive.
Its so sad that Iger and other CEO’s have no respect for Walt. The family rides are being eliminated. Areas for relaxing and kids playgrounds are few and far between. Disney Corp should take a look around at small popular parks in the USA – they are going back to nature. Families love it! Kids love it! If WDW had both – all would love it.
You would think after the Star Wars Hotel fiasco they would have learned – their ideas are not smart!
Thank you for your comment.
is it possible to lean on the government/environmental side of this to get Disney’s proposal rejected or at least slowed enough to the point it gets torpedoed? it would be hilarious if Disney fans were able to F this this up for Disney (as they should because it’s a terrible decision).
It’s not a political process, so that’s highly unlikely to succeed.
Disney has largely repaired its relationship with the state, and the CFTOD–the new body that was initially antagonistic towards Disney–actually filed the extension on Disney’s behalf. Given that, I have a very hard time seeing that working.
If the government slows this down or causes it to change, it’ll be on the environmental merits.
We are growing tired of Disney. Although we are still passholders, we visit much less frequently now than we did a decade ago, and my family from out-of-town has little interest in visiting Disney. Their kids are getting older, and they are anxiously awaiting the opening of Epic Universe. One of the reasons we always loved visiting Disney World was its beauty and the birds and other wildlife it draws. We have no interest in Cars Land or other concrete jungles. The parks are too hot in summer as it is. With our interest in Disney waning, so has our entertainment and merchandise spending on Disney. We no longer stay in Disney hotels or take Disney cruises, and purchase little to no merchandise. There was a time when a major portion of our entertainment budget focused on Disney. It’s a shame, but at least I have many fond memories from the trips we took to Disney during the 80s, 90s, 2000s, and even the early 2010s when the Disney experience far surpassed that of the other parks.
I AGREE…..used to go to WDW & stay at WDW hotels! WATCH,the new hotels are just the beginning…. I am not impressed by THE upper management of WDW. When HE leaves…..WD,MM, DD will be “the past” & a distant memory!
I continue to think the root of most of the backlash here (not yours necessarily, Tom, but at large) is most Disney Adults disliking the IP. Cars is maybe the current big-money Disney IP least targeted towards folks like us who read and comment on Disney Parks blogs. It is pitched at culturally conservative families and, most prominently, little boys who love to go vroom vroom. Unlike something like MuppetVision, I don’t think this is a genuine reaction to losing something beloved. Had, say, Villains Land been the direct replacement for the Rivers and something else been built behind it, I don’t think the reaction would have been nearly so visceral.
My attitude remains the same – if the ride is great (almost guaranteed) and the surrounding area is picturesque and filled with trees and water features (I expect it will be), it’s a net win. Tiana’s already blew up whatever was left of the original Western town theme for Frontierland, which was frankly tired and due for a modern facelift regardless.
Dear Evan,
I respect your opinion but you are totally wrong.
Writing that sentence reminds me of Saturday Night Live, “Jane you ignorant slut” -Dan Akroyd.
Seriously though this has nothing to do with what’s replacing it and is completely about what is being replaced. There are those who don’t care and those who do.
Part of the reason those of us who do (and I think you’re one of us) is that Disney has so much land to expand on but choose this route as to kill two birds with one stone.
It’s the cheapest way to go and it eliminates an area that is not as profitable as they want.
The most galling thing is that they evaluate something according to money taken in per square foot.
Long live the Rivers!
I think Evan is partially right, but has it the wrong way around.
Which is to say that some fans are really upset about losing Rivers of America, so they’re grasping at any straws they can to argue that it’s a bad decision. That is why we keep seeing claims that Cars isn’t even that popular, or won’t be a decade from now.
While I’m also upset about losing RoA, Cars is insanely popular and is a franchise with longevity. One look at DCA makes this abundantly clear.
Let’s be honest. If the Government does somehow force Disney to keep the Rivers of America, it’s not like Disney is going to spend ANY money returning it to its past glory, or even maintaining it as it exists now. Florida might not let them drain the river, but Florida can’t require them to run the Liberty Belle, or let guests visit Tom Sawyer Island. Disney will just find some other project to spend all that money on, and it will probably mean demolishing something ELSE we don’t want to lose.
I’m on the autotrain right now, heading for WDW.
We will definitely be spending time reminiscing on TSI and taking a trip or two on the steamboat.
To paraphrase Jay Leno. What is Disney thinking?
Sadly, these last few weeks, I’ve been considering taking a Disney break for a couple of years.
A final decision depends on how this trip feels.
I don’t like so many of their park and resort decisions. Nickel and dining, up charges for things that were free. Totally evil in my eyes.
Yet, to my shame, I broke down and bought LL Multi Passes for Dec 24th and 25th at MK plus the individual passes for Tron and 7 Dwarfs on both days!
But my descent through the rings of Hell continued as I bought a LL Multi Pass for the 27th at HS. It will be the first time we’ve ridden Slinky Dog since Aug 2023 because of lines.
Then, since I was on a roll breaking my moral stances, I booked Flight of Passage for the 28th.
As if my self esteem wasn’t low enough I actually considered picking up a LLMP for Animal Kingdom. ANIMAL KINGDOM !!!!! The park that least needs LLMPs. My God what has become of me.
And you know what?
I am acutely aware that in the back of my mind, though I’m considering NOT returning to Disney for a couple of years because of my displeasure with recent Park and resort developments, I know that 2025, the year of Universal EPIC, will bring such tantalizing Disney discounts that I will very possibly join Satan himself at the center of the Earth.
From the circle of “frode” I wish you all a Merry Christmas, Happy Chanukah and a blessed New Year.
mickey1928, you continue to fascinate,..
Everyone who claims ‘this is their last year at Disney’ or ‘We’re fed up – just one more trip, and we’re done!” or “We’d already planned for this trip, and don’t want to disappoint the kids…” are only empowering Disney’s belief they can continue to cut services, rise prices, and decrease quality.
Disney marketing is now focused not on their product but on nostalgia, hoping the stress and disappointment of planning and cost will be overshadowed by guests visiting ‘one last time’ to re-experience memories before those physical elements are removed, destroyed, re-themed, or no longer functioning as designed. Only by showing our displeasure with our wallets will the current executives begin to consider a decrease in revenue could, possibly, reflect hubris and bad decisions.
As we’re quoting others, I remind readers of the eminent philosopher Barney Fife: “Nip it, nip it in the bud.”
So many changes that are heart breaking to us. This just confirms our plan of stepping back from Disney is the best for us. I’ll keep following you, as I’ve done for so so many years to keep up with your precious daughter! I hope the three of you, plus your fur babies, have a wonderful Christmas!♥️♥️
A year from now, Disney’s board is going to be baffled as to why Universal is kicking their ass
Honestly, I don’t care for Disney’s plan to eliminate this feature!
And I’m taking great delight with the State of Florida throwing in an environmental concern to the whole proposal.
Not that I’m anti-development, having a career in real estate that involved that exact thing.
But, as the average consumer of things Disney, I asked myself, don’t they own more land in that vicinity that this can be constructed? Admittedly, I’m not an expert.
I enjoyed Carsland in Disneyland. so why not install it in Florida? it will be a great feature! The Villains land, however, is another thing. I don’t understand that at all.
I think you’ve done a great analysis of the matter! like you, I don’t claim to be an expert and I think Disney has done more than adequate report, to the State.
Stay tuned!
WDW still has several thousand acres that are still zoned for development (not counting the protected forests & wetlands). Even on Magic Kingdom property, it would be so much easier to build *behind* Rivers of America, to the NW of the park, rather than on top of it. To the north of Fantasyland or to the west of Frontierland would also be good areas.
Good to know Eric!
Being unfamiliar with the specific borders, so to speak, it appears as though it would be possible to do so!
I don’t know what these people are thinking…
thank you for the input!