‘Beyond Big Thunder’ Magic Kingdom Expansion Project Starts Soon
Walt Disney World has reiterated its ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ plans for Magic Kingdom expansion outside the existing footprint of the park. This discusses possibilities for Coco, Encanto, and Villains lands in the longer-term and shares the latest news. (Updated April 4, 2024.)
The first time this was mentioned was at the 2022 D23 Expo. The first time it was reiterated was during the “A Celebration of Disney Parks, Experiences and Products: Yesterday, Today and Tomorrow” presentation at the 2023 Destination D23. There, Parks Chairman Josh D’Amaro offered a sneak peek at concept art for the future in addition and teased what was to come in a few years.
At Destination D23, Josh D’Amaro was joined on stage by Bruce Vaughn, who recently returned to lead Walt Disney Imagineering. Vaughn first expressed surprise that D’Amaro would pull back the curtain on the creative process, as normally WDI doesn’t like to do that. Vaughn further indicated that he’s been blown away by the concepts being explored for Magic Kingdom.
The Beyond Big Thunder project scope and scale are supposedly on par with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge or Pandora – World of Avatar. Vaughn also indicated that the project would likely exceed New Fantasyland over a decade ago. Nothing else was shared–no new substantive details, just a reiteration of intent to expand Magic Kingdom Beyond Big Thunder.
This was reiterated again (so third time discussed) when the Country Bear Jamboree closure date was announced and more reimagining details were shared in January 2024. Walt Disney World teased: “But hold your horses, we’re not done yet. We have a lot of growth and investment planned for our theme parks in the coming years and look forward to sharing more announcements about Frontierland … so y’all come back now, ya hear?”
Technically, this doesn’t say anything about Beyond Big Thunder. Accordingly, it could pertain to any number of things, including but not limited to the following:
- Tiana’s Palace Restaurant Replacing Pecos Bill
- Mini-New Orleans Square Coming to Frontierland
Tiana’s Bayou Adventure ‘Accelerated Opening’ Instead of Late 2024- Tiana’s Bayou Adventure Official Opening Date
- ???
April 4, 2024 Update: I recently had the chance to visit Walt Disney Imagineering in Glendale for a presentation by CEO Bob Iger, Parks Chairman Josh D’Amaro, along with Imagineers working on expansion plans for Walt Disney World. The executives discussed the ‘turbocharged’ plans for growth at Walt Disney World and Disneyland, and $60 billion investment earmarked for Parks & Resorts.
One of the topics was Beyond Big Thunder at Magic Kingdom. During that portion of the presentation, Michael Hundgen, Walt Disney World Portfolio VP at Walt Disney Imagineering, showed the water management permit that would be filed with Florida in the coming weeks.
Obviously, that’s not the actual permit above–it’s a screenshot from Google Maps. The actual, yet-to-be-filed permit contained water management plans for large swaths of the area between the eastern and northern berm of Magic Kingdom and Floridian Way. This is pretty normal when waterways are going to be rerouted or water is displaced.
I couldn’t ascertain from the permit whether there will be any changes to the Rivers of America or Tom Sawyer Island, but my expectation is that both will be condensed. From a purely operational and crowd flow perspective, I’d imagine that Walt Disney World will want to eliminate the Big Thunder Mountain and Haunted Mansion dead ends; you can look at the above and pretty well envision what that would mean.
In any case, this upcoming permit is the first step in developing that area, and is somewhat similar to what was filed for Tropical Americas with the South Florida Water Management District last month. Although there are no official timelines for the construction (much less opening years or dates), Tropical Americas and Beyond Big Thunder are the next two major projects in the pipeline for Walt Disney World.
With a water management permit incoming, this all but confirms that Beyond Big Thunder is going to be a major topic at the 2024 D23 Expo in August. We would also expect news about smaller scale redevelopment plans for portions of Frontierland, as there’s still been no official word about Tiana’s Palace replacing Pecos Bill. That still seems like an inevitability, but it cannot possibly occur before Tiana’s Bayou Adventure opens. It’s too late.
None of this is really a huge surprise. Josh D’Amaro first got up on stage to talk about ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ at the 2022 D23 Expo, when he was joined by Imagineer Chris Beatty and Jennifer Lee, the Chief Creative Officer of Walt Disney Animation Studios. They didn’t provide any substantive details or even an official announcement, instead being careful to use language crouching the presentation, indicating that this is an “early concept exploration” and one of the “potential expansion opportunities” (but also more concrete than a blue sky brainstorming session).
Since then, both CEO Bob Iger and D’Amaro have done interviews or presentations and repeatedly doubled-down on their intentions to expand Walt Disney World. During a JPMorgan conference, D’Amaro was directly asked about expansion plans for Magic Kingdom and how Walt Disney World could grow capacity. He said that management and Imagineers are already at work on improving the guest experience at Walt Disney World and adding capacity in several ways. (The location–a JPMorgan conference–is significant for reasons we’ll discuss in a bit.)
In addition to that, earnings calls and shareholder meetings have included teases of Bob Iger’s plan to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World. Again, no specifics in any of this, but both have mentioned “ambitious plans that to continue to grow these theme parks” and have expressed excitement for Walt Disney World’s future.
In the medium or long-term, expanding Magic Kingdom outside the berm makes a ton of sense. We’ve been bullish on the Magic Kingdom Expansion Possibilities “Beyond Big Thunder” since last D23 Expo, even as other fans expressed (completely understandable and valid) skepticism.
As has been discussed elsewhere, the initial excitement for the tease of Coco, Encanto & Villains lands quickly soured–positive sentiment gave way to cynicism about these possible plans. That’s totally fair, especially in light of Disney’s not-so-stellar track record in building things that were announced at past D23 Expos.
(Note: we’re crossing through Encanto because that IP has moved over to the Animal Kingdom plans–that seems to be pretty much a done deal. It’s also highly likely that Coco has moved to the Animal Kingdom proposal.)
However, we think this time is different. (Famous last words.) As we’ve discussed previously on multiple occasions, Walt Disney World continues to outperform, and investors have been taking notice of its success for the past year-plus. This coupled with Wall Street souring on streaming (at least a bit) means investors once again want Disney to finally start to bet bigger on its theme park business.
That part is the key–Wall Street wants the company to spend money building expansions at Walt Disney World, rather than continuing to simply milk the cash cow. This is one of those rare occasions where the stars align and what’s good for investors is good for guests. Expanding Magic Kingdom improves capacity, gives the park more drawing power, and is just plain fun for fans. (All lessons learned back in 2009, proving yet again that history repeats itself!)
This is actually a big part of why that seemingly-random blue sky discussion occurred on stage at the last D23 Expo. Like a child with a short attention span, Wall Street had just started to lose interest in streaming prior to that, and begun asking more questions about the future of Disney’s theme parks. With nothing greenlit or funded, talking about “possibilities” was the best Disney could do.
Those are air quotes because they weren’t simply possibilities then, and that’s still true today. Barring unforeseen circumstances, Magic Kingdom expansion will happen this decade, and it’ll be beyond the berm in the area ‘behind’ Big Thunder Mountain Railroad. It’s the specifics that are iffy, meaning what intellectual properties the area will feature, as well as the unifying theme or motifs of the land or mini-lands.
Within the next decade, we fully expect to be able to walk from Big Thunder Mountain Railroad to Haunted Mansion without passing Tiana’s Bayou Adventure. From our perspective, that beyond the berm expansion is less a matter of “if” and more “when” and “what.”
Our expectation is that it actually will be some combination of Coco, Encanto, and Villains (but not “Cocoland” or “Encanto Land”). The better question is when and, frankly, that’ll probably be closer to 2034 than 2024.
Given how far into the future that is and how much things can change, and how long this post already is…perhaps it’s better if we save the ‘Beyond Big Thunder’ discussion for another day. Maybe the same could’ve been said to Josh D’Amaro, and that it’s premature for him to tease it at Destination D23 given how much can and will change, and Walt Disney World’s recent track record even with official announcements.
To each their own on that. Personally, I’d rather hear that the company does have plans for Walt Disney World and doesn’t just intend upon letting the parks stagnate. Even if the specifics aren’t worked out, plans haven’t been greenlit, or funding isn’t there–I still appreciate knowing that something is planned and coming.
Even with the constant refrain about $17 billion worth of investment at Walt Disney World, it’s still tenuous at this point. There’s a lot to sort out in the meantime before that spending starts–from the future of streaming, potential ESPN and Hulu deals, 20th Century Fox acquisition debt, and the current standoff with the state. But those are short-term speedbumps and Magic Kingdom expansion is a long-term solution to an ongoing issue. It will happen.
If all goes well, the decade to come at Walt Disney World could be bigger than the prior one. The current plan to invest $17 billion amounts to more than was spent on New Fantasyland, Pandora, Toy Story Land, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, the EPCOT overhaul, new resorts, and a significant amount of infrastructure. (As previously discussed, a lot of money was wasted on things that didn’t come to fruition or were short lived.) If even more money is invested without the misallocations of resources, it could be a blockbuster decade for Walt Disney World. It’s just going to be at least a few years of waiting while the near-term speedbumps are addressed and construction commences.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What is your reaction to Disney discussing park expansion in the existing footprint of the park and beyond the berm at Magic Kingdom? Think this can be reconciled with the near-term cost-cutting, or would you rather not build anticipation for something several years out, or that may never come to fruition? What potential plans have you most and least excited? Anything you’re hoping does not end up coming to fruition? Do you agree or disagree with our assessments? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Please don’t expand MK without adding another entrance. Main Street is already a nightmare, I can’t imagine adding 20% more guests at opening or closing time. Add it to the beyond big thunder. Charge premium parking for that gate, build a hotel there, or maybe use that area/gate for the bus service on property….a perk for staying on site…a private gate reserved for Disney hotel guests!
MK is so maxed out already for guests/dining/being able to walk around so how about increasing ride availability at EPCOT or AK?
If you’re gonna jam us up even more at MK, lower the prices at the other 3.
Something has to give, MK will simply collapse in on itself if it gets expanded again with no relief for Main Street and the cattle call.
good point it is difficult now to get out of the park at the end of the night adding capacity while great you are correct it makes another problem worse
Looking at a map of MK, I have to question one thing – unless they move the entrance queue for Haunted Mansion, there is simply no space to get around that attraction. Of course, they may do that. I kind of see going under the raised railroad station behind Tiana’s, making a right turn and having a walkway leading toward the new land. Would also love a railroad station in the new area.
I don’t like the idea of a villians land. That would too scary for little kids and way more IP-focused than any other section of the park. I hope this is wrong.
It certainly appears as if a “Villains Land” is a foregone conclusion, but in my opinion not necessarily as a part of “Beyond Big Thunder”. If “Villains Land” is not part of this expansion, my sense is that property is being held back in anticipation of a 5th gate announcement in the next couple of years. Tom, I know you don’t think that very likely, but an Epic Universe overwhelming success may not leave much of an alternative.
Even when Universal have three parks, Disney World still beat them with having four, so long-term Disney should still be the bigger draw (as long as they keep improving the current parks). Disney can’t open a fifth gate by next summer so they might as well not bother and just work on improving the amazing parks they already have!
apparently you did not see Universal Epic will be 6 different lands right ? meaning 4 run down dusney parks or an all new 6 different lands of all new fun make no mistake Disney is in big trouble with Epic opening and all they can do is change splash mountain to tianas with the same ride it was they better do better than that and fyi we love Disney but can’t wait for Epic to open.
To all about the Disney vs Universal takeover it’s just a preposterous statement. To note Magic Kindom gate alone does 2x+ of what islands of adventure and studios does combined. Add all the WDW gates now universal is 5x+ behind Disney. To say universal will overtake Disney with the new epic universe gate is just folly. Look, I love WDW and Universal equally but universal would have to open 4 more gates (after epic universe) to try and catch up to Disney. Just wanted to add some perspective to the whole universal takeover debate. Love the passion!!
My biggest concern: does this mean that the capacity will be redistributing guests so it’s not so crowded, or does this mean they’re looking at this as an excuse to sell more tickets? If it’s the latter, they’re going to keep repeating the same mistakes that drive guests away instead of towards WDW.
We’re all tired of elbow to elbow crowds, even in what would be considered the off-season now, but unless the c-suite experiences it for themselves without perks like LL or G+ they won’t fully understand the frustrations of guests. It would require an “Undercover Boss” situation to walk in the shoes of a typical guest, instead of what I imagine their current experiences are with the perks of being recognized as upper-management at the parks.
Yeah Whatever it is they better get a move on as refurbished old rides to be the same refurbished old rides is not going to stand a chance against Universal Epic. Disney definitely needs something better than to build yet another land from characters of 20 to 40 years ago hence star wars land. it is tome for something new and exciting for once. we were there the 4th of July week for toy story land to be disappointed with 3 rides and very small park elbow to elbow in 100 degree heat and 100 % humidity. cmon Disney wake up
I understand medium and long term projects and separate expenses for park maintenance, but what about the short term plan?
Will a few enticements be added between now and then? New parades? Menu refreshes? New or existing restaurants opening/reconfigured in a timely manner? Dreamlights?
They still have some making up to do.
I’m hoping that this current team learns how to build more than 2 rides in a “land” wherever and whatever it may be themed to. They desperately need more rides in AK, HS, and Epcot. New rides, not rethemes. Hopefully they do something about the monorails too.
I’d argue Beyond Big Thunder is more concrete than a blue sky brainstorming session in the sense that we know where in WDW Disney wants to build but less concrete in that we don’t know what they want to build or what the theme will be. It’s more analogous to when someone takes a look at WDW property and decides where resorts would go without deciding how they should be themed or what unique amenities should be built.
(Very few people want to talk my plans for building a monorail hotel in what’s the closest area of the MK parking lot without talking about those things!)
A very exciting rumor of something that might and could happen but maybe not and we can’t say what it is right now, but this is all very exciting! Just like Disney’s last dozen roll-out of trial balloons that went nowhere.
Has Josh D’Amaro actually announced a ride that was announced, constructed, and opened in his tenure? I’ll wait…
Tom, this is big news indeed… glad they have somewhat confirmed that some type of expansion here is a “go” with the permit submission, even though an official announcement hasn’t been made.
I’m sure I’m not alone in wanting a “Villians” expansion. This seems to be a common refrain among many fans, and would fit the theme of Magic Kingdom brilliantly… plus it would be ORIGINAL, and not be a copy from another park. I’m fine using the technology from Fantasy Springs, or POTC and Zootopia from Shanghai and create something unique just for this park. Can you imagine how much demand it would drum up? Plus, I think it would be a natural progression between Haunted Mansion and this land… a really nice transition.
*crosses fingers*
Hi Tom,
There’s something I’ve been thinking about/wishing about since finally making it to Disneyland this past summer. With the sandstone desert rock setting of Big Thunder and the Cadillac mountains rockwork and incredible success of Cars Land in Disneyland, do you think they would consider tying Big Thunder into a new Cars Land? After seeing it in person, I’m surprised they haven’t already added it somewhere in Walt Disney World. That would be a huge addition for Walt Disney World.
Walt Disney World came really, really close to greenlighting Cars Land for DHS before Toy Story and Star Wars lands. From what I understand, it was almost a done deal.
While I don’t think Cars Land (or any IP-land) would be ideal for Magic Kingdom, it also wouldn’t surprise me. Cars Land is immensely popular, although I’m not sure if it’s still a merchandising powerhouse.
I think Cars Land is the thing I’d most like to see come to Walt Disney World, but I do agree that an IP-based land might be an odd choice for Magic Kingdom. I’d love for them to make make it work in Hollywood Studios. Thanks for the reply. I love the blog!
From my perspective Cars Land is way better than star wars “land” – while the attractions of SW are light years ahead of Cars Land Rise is flipping awesome on many levels but Cars Land most particular at night is awesome and have a better depth than SW land – not a critical of SW land which is an A+ but Cars is A++
They need to do something with the new universal park coming. Which looks like it is going to be amazing.
I just read a report saying that when Universal’s license expires in four years, Disney will NOT be leasing The Simpsons back to them, so that will be the end of “Springfield” at USF and USH. I can see Disney installing a miniland at DHS or WDSP. My dream dream scenario would be Disney building a park entirely dedicated to 20th Century Studios properties, both pictures and televisions.
ummm, why is the word”Encanto” repeatedly crossed out? is it officially out of the running?
I don’t think they said anything at all about the theme(s) of the expansion during this panel, but I presume Tom crossed it out because they DID share that Encanto was being considered at Animal Kingdom instead so it’s unlikely it is still under consideration for MK too as what are the chances they’d build two Encanto expansions at the same resort at the same time?
Personally I could see it as an expansion to Fantasyland, “Dark Fantasyland”, in the same vein as “New Fantasyland”. However I suspect Coco is not going to make the cut, at least not as its own land and attraction. And I don’t see any of it arriving before 2030.
I would also be shocked if Coco made the cut. Aesthetically an amazing idea for a land/attraction but I don’t think it’s got the sort of traction with broad audiences that other recent films have achieved. The film is also pretty serious and inherently morbid. The next time I hear a bunch of little kids screaming the chorus of “Remember Me” will be the first.
I would love to see the Mexico Pavillion get expanded, and have the Land of the Dead represented there. I can’t see an entire land at Magic Kingdom being justified. Maybe a dinner show at Coronado Springs.
They showed the Encanto “casita” in the concept art for the new area in AK themed after “Tropical Americas” which includes northern South America and Central America.
Oh, well I didn’t read about that until later. There just wasn’t a reference to it in this article. If you didn’t already know, it could be confusing eithout an editors note.
I don’t know… I think a Coco could actually fit very well there. If they’re trying to connect the American Frontierland to something, it might connect well to Mexico…. and then some of the Land of the Dead from Coco could be a transition from Frontierland into something more like Villans.
hmm, going through the Land of the Dead to get to the “Dark Kingdom” seems like it might be implying all the villains are now in hell. I think it’s hilarious, but some more sensitive (religious) parents might take offense.
I’m getting a vision: The Haunted Mansion in Disneyland gets a Nightmare Before Christmas overlay every December. What if every November, Frontierland at Magic Kingdom gets a Dia de Los Muertos overlay?
Why am I reminded of the phrase, “Move along, nothing to see here.”
With all due respect Tom,
Knowing that $17B is already being planned does not reconcile with “early concept exploration” of expanding beyond the berm.
Disney does nothing on-the-cheap, so updating, as you point out, “[T]est Track at EPCOT, Pirates of the Caribbean tavern in Magic Kingdom, new scene with Ahsoka in Star Tours, a first look at the Audio Animatronics in Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, and much more,”…..will absorb a portion of the mysterious $17B. Capital improvements on a 50 year old Park will cost a portion of the mysterious $17B too. Also, my guess, eliminating Tom Sawyer Island (in preparation of expanding beyond the berm) and completing and/or remediating ‘Discovery Island’ in Bay Lake are going to be part of that $17B.
Said differently, zero-to-few new rides or attractions will open from ‘investing’ $17B in the next decade.
Frankly, I enjoyed the FantasyLand expansion, but continue to have problems with more people being invited to the Fireworks as a result. Adding capacity seems nice, but continuing to do so in the Magic Kingdom seems less appealing given the under utilization of the other 3-Parks.
And I’d like to comment on Streaming – Wall Street souring on the concept is because long-term profits have become difficult to quantify for all the providers. Streaming is a money-pit because to keep subscriptions, new content is seemingly what customers want. But adding new content costs money, and in the case of Disney, that includes cannibalizing their box office results. Said differently, some families will wait for a movie to stream at the much lower (sunk) cost than paying for an expensive move ticket. Conversely, Netflix has to invest in new content just to stay relevant (and barely profitable).
I wonder if we will lose Tom Sawyer’s Island in the process? Hopefully not.
They could at least, bare minimum, tell us what something may be named. Since they seem to think sharing names of things is very exciting.