Gondola Skyway Coming to Walt Disney World!
It’s now official: a gondola system is coming to Walt Disney World! The gondolas will service Epcot, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, Caribbean Beach Resort, and Art of Animation/Pop Century. This is an ongoing story, and we last updated this post on April 19, 2017 with new info and a confirmation of the project.
While this might sound outlandish, particularly as Disney has never expanded the monorail system due to it being cost-prohibitive, note that this is not some pie-in-the-sky rumor that could simply be blue sky spitballing that actually has zero chance of ever coming to fruition. Disney has filed permits for the construction of these stations, which usually (but not always) is a precursor to actual construction. It still most certainly should be classified as a rumor at this point, but I’ve read and heard enough that I think there’s a sufficient basis for posting about this.
If you’re still laughing at the idea, thinking of gondolas as ski lifts or the antiquated design of Magic Kingdom’s (extinct) Skyway, think again. Gondolas are a hot trend in urban mass transit, with systems being proposed or being built in a number of major metropolitan areas. (Someone in the industry suggested to me that Doppelmayr would likely be the manufacturer for this project, and it could have a 4,500 person hourly capacity.)
April 19, 2017 Update: The Orlando Sentinel obtained documentation and confirmation from the Reedy Creek Improvement District which indicates that there will be six stations with three lines connecting Disney’s Hollywood Studios, Epcot, Caribbean Beach Resort, and lake area between Pop Century and Art of Animation Resorts.
Each gondola would hold 10 guests, and the system will be built by the renowned European manufacturer Doppelmayr, which is the world’s leading builder of cable cars like this. The project will be supervised by Walt Disney Imagineering, and is currently progressing under codename “The Italian Job.”
April 4, 2017 Update: WDWNT is reporting that Walt Disney World has filed official “Notice of Commencement” paperwork for the construction of “foundation and building infrastructure” at six locations that match the locations of the stations previously mapped out.
If that’s still not enough for you, following the original publication of this post, we heard from an insider who shared details about the gondola station designs. We are very confident that this project is happening, and is not just pie-in-the-sky rumors.
What follows is the original post, and thoughts on the viability of a gondola system at Walt Disney World…
Beyond skiing, we’ve used gondolas to travel in Hong Kong and the Swiss Alps, and found them to be surprisingly versatile and efficient. In both of those settings, they were used as alternatives for trains/busses in mountainous terrain, and even in those more “intense” scenarios, they performed well. The Swiss gondolas even used KUKA arms to load/unload off-road carts that people rode down the mountains.
It seems unlikely that Disney would do that with strollers, but the possibility is interesting. Gondolas like these are large enough to accommodate strollers and ECVs, and load at a slow-enough speed that they wouldn’t pose a problem–think of them as a really large, elevated Omnimover. The system wouldn’t have that level of efficiency, but part of the appeal is in the ‘ride’ nature of the transit, too.
Still, this all seems a bit too good to be true. After all, what would Walt Disney World’s motivation be for adding a new transportation option after decades of the bus fleet being ‘good enough’? Well, there are a few possibilities. For starters, transportation infrastructure has been stretched to (near) its breaking point.
With never-ending Disney Vacation Club construction and hotel rooms being added around Walt Disney World–and attendance likely to spike at Disney’s Hollywood Studios in a couple of years when Star Wars Land opens–at some point transportation is an issue that needs to be addressed. Gondolas could alleviate some of that stress and allow expansion at resort hotels without reaching the breaking point.
Perhaps most importantly when applied to Walt Disney World transportation, gondola infrastructure is (comparatively) inexpensive. The cost of building a gondola is between $3 million and $12 million per mile, as compared to $400 million per mile for subway systems (not even possible in the swamps of Florida) or $36 million per mile for light rail systems.
The exact cost of monorail expansion in Walt Disney World is unknown. The Las Vegas monorail costing $88 million per mile in 2004 on much ‘easier’ topography, so it wouldn’t be a surprise if monorail expansion at Walt Disney World would exceed $300 million per mile today. That’s never going to happen.
Of course, all of this is more expensive than bus transportation, which utilizes existing infrastructure (roads) and thus has little capital expense beyond replacing the aging fleet. Over time, operating expenses on buses could be higher than the aforementioned mass transit systems, but it’s questionable as to whether that would be enough to offset the up-front capital expense. In any case, Walt Disney World has demonstrated a “commitment” to short term thinking of late. So…what other motivation does Walt Disney World have for building a gondola?
Novelty. As our resort comparison series has shown, Walt Disney World guests strongly favor those resorts that connect to a park through means other than bus transit. Unquestionably the biggest selling point of any Disney resort is being within walking, boat, or monorail distance of a park. Guests love this perk, and it enables Walt Disney World to charge more for resorts that–in the outside world–could not command nearly as high of a price.
Being able to bump up rack rates at 3 resorts–that collectively at present have nearly 6,000 rooms–is exactly what Walt Disney World would need to justify the up-front infrastructure cost of a gondola system.
What lends additional credence to this is that Disney’s Caribbean Beach Resort is about to undergo a massive overhaul that will add Disney Vacation Club to the resort, and in the process alter/replace infrastructure and buildings. When this was initially rumored last year, part of that rumor was that boat transportation would be added to connect Caribbean Beach and Epcot. However, this was notably absent from permits filed for Caribbean Beach’s changes.
One thing Disney Vacation Club members have wondered is how Caribbean Beach will slot into the portfolio of resorts and raised issues with the potential for a de facto ‘second tier’ given that it could be the first Moderate DVC. Gondola transportation to Epcot and Disney’s Hollywood Studios plus upgraded facilities on the DVC side would effectively anser those concerns: it’s not going to be a “Moderate” DVC.
If the gondola system does come to fruition, it would also make Pop Century a more attractive option to guests, and would enable Walt Disney World to move the resort into a tier, price-wise, between the All Stars and Moderate Resorts. In fact, if the rumored room enhancements at Pop Century occur, that and the gondola could be enough for Pop Century to “become” a Moderate.
That’s what we know so far, and while it might sound preposterous at first blush, it actually makes a good deal of sense once you break down the pros and cons. Despite all of that, we are still skeptical that this will actually come to fruition. Perhaps the decades of a “band-aid approach” have left us as jaded cynics, but this just seems a little too forward-thinking for current Walt Disney World management. On the other hand, Disney has recently approved a number of capital expenditures, and is currently investing more in growth than at any point in the last decade-plus (even adjusted for inflation). It does seem there’s some amount of disconnect between the low-level cost-cutting/upcharge measures and the high-level capital projects–and this gondola system would fit with that. Perhaps we are entering a new ‘golden age’ of Walt Disney World expansion, and this is another sign of that. We will keep you posted.
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Your Thoughts
What do you think about this gondola system? Is it likely to happen…or another wild rumor? Any sightline or other concerns this project raises? Does it make you more excited for Disney Vacation Club at Caribbean Beach Resort? Share any questions, armchair Imagineering, or additional thoughts you have in the comments!
I would love to see a gondola system put in place at WDW, but my concern is whether they would start thinking of transportation as “tiered” in addition to their hotels. For example, I can see them having complementary bus transportation and (at an additional cost) “premium” transportation in the form of the gondolas, monorail, and boats.
[Apologies for the same post on FB.] Yes please! Maybe Bob Chapek is realizing that with all the “Enchanting Extras” – it takes money to make money (see DCA remodel and Universal expansions). If the numbers and customer surveys from Shanghai are really as good as rumored (which beats expectations), the investments to try and own Disneyland Paris outright, and the expansions at all Disney resorts (if you count “Les Villages Nature” in Paris), it might give Bob Iger and the board more confidence to invest in the theme park division (while ESPN struggles). The film division is blockbuster after blockbuster and they need more outlets (and more space!) to sell us more Disney magic.
My question after reading this is whether Disney is wanting to move out of the value resort business by moving the all stars and pop century to a moderate resort price point? What happens to the pop warner masses yeas from now for example?
Interesting move if it happens especially given the current and future hotel boom going on over at universal.
I am honestly surprised they don’t sell transit as an add on already.
I think they’ll upgrade all their current value resorts, to bring them up to moderates with queen beds and the like and they’ll add in more value spots. They still have a bunch of room to grow in that swamp.
On my October trip the monorail was down more than it was up, and being the main point of staying at the GF, I can’t imagine paying for this service any more when as an alternative you could uber/rent a car. The $80-$200 price difference between GF/Poly/Contemporary and Wilderness or AKL buys a lot of Uber. A gondola seems like a pretty easy thing to keep in service given that ski resorts run these things non stop all day with minimal down time, and could add a lot of value to some of the Epcot area resorts. I’m guessing that when I go back after SW land opens I’ll be inclined to stay at Beach Club, but would give Caribbean a hard look if it had some sort of non driving access to Epcot and Hollywood Studios.
I don’t really “get” the high cost per mile for monorail… yes, maybe higher than gondolas, given the distance between supports, but one of the original “selling points” of monorail is that it’s lower cost per mile than many other things…
You don’t have to lay trackbed (important in the swamps), etc.
And I LOVE the monorail 🙂
But I’d try a gondola also… as long as they are improving and adding, and not just turning things into character rides.
If my understanding is correct–and it’s quite possibly not–the footers for monorails have to support significantly more weight and need to be deeper than gondolas. This alone would cost a ton of money.
Marty Sklar (and others) shared stories of the monorail expansion at Epcot and all of the problems encountered then at a D23 event a couple of years ago. Basically, they lost multiple footers to sinkholes and soft ground. The cost for that monorail expansion basically precluded it as an option going forward.
I guess a lot depends on the ground where it’s going…
One of the biggest selling points of nuclear power was that it was cheap and to this day, never has a more expensive method of boiling water existed.
I’ve always wondered the same. I know quite a bit about the construction and still can’t figure out why this monorail is so expensive to expand.
I’ve always wondered about construction of a “real” train between the parks. Train lines are all over the world, so the technology and parts are readily available. Walt would have loved it!
My guess as to why a “real” train would be out of the question would be logistics. They would have to drain/redirect a lot of wetland to get the necessary roadbed for the tracks. Tracks would inevitably have to cross roadways and we all know how well that goes everywhere else, not to mention the added traffic nightmare when you have to stop for a train crossing. An elevated train system would seem like an obvious choice, but then you run into the same footer issues as with the monorail system.
Personally, I like the idea of the gondolas. It’s a novel approach to an obvious infrastructure issue within WDW, the cost is considerably less expensive than monorails, it’s “greener” than adding busses to the existing fleet, and it won’t impede the existing vehicle traffic. That being said, there are downsides. The most obvious issue, in my mind, of being stuck in a giant metal box, attached to a bunch of metal cables with their own electric current, hanging over a lot of wetlands during the frequent Orlando thunderstorms. Plus, what would hurricanes do to the system? Yes, gondolas can be removed from their supports and stored, but it takes time….like A LOT of time for gondolas of the size I’m assuming would be proposed for this project.
Justification for “Resort Fees”?
I can practically see the press release right now…
If you subscribe to the notion that deluxe hotels have alternative means of transportation, it would imply that the changes at CB are in the direction of a new deluxe or at least a “semi-deluxe” designation. Other than the proximity, this argument falls apart with Pop, but your comment regarding a new value/moderate classification makes some sense. I can envision that this would be as much of an attraction as it would be transportation (ala the monorail at DL), so it is a little bit of a twofer. I have argued for years that the monorail needed to be extended to AK. This doesn’t address that need, but if it were to be done and was successful, we could be seeing additional links down the road. I agree with Tom’s comment about short term thinking and I see shades of Eisner in some recent decisions. Hopefully, this indicates that they are willing to spend some capital to improve the experience and not just increase prices.
Awesome!!!
O.M.G. this would be SO COOL. I really hope this is a legitimate rumor. I spoke with a cast member working the monorail at TTC last visit, and they said the only updates they are expecting in the near future would be some sort of computerized auto pilot system which would allow them to be operated without someone in the drivers seat. Don’t think we’ll be seeing an extension of the monorail loop anytime soon/ever. Def think that a new “novelty transportation” system could be a selling point for Disney. The monorails always fascinated me as a kid! One day maybe before our kids 1st Disney trip we’ll be telling them about a new “highway in the sky!” aka Gondola Skyway! Can’t wait for any future updates on this topic!
This is an interesting idea. I’ve been on the Metrocable in MedellÃn, it was a little strange to be riding a ski lift at 6º North! It works well there, because the hillside neighborhoods it serves have a long commute to the city center by car/bus. For WDW, in addition to the novelty, there would also likely be some nice views along the way.
They use high(ish) capacity gondolas at Alton Towers and have done for years. They’re old now and a bit rickety but 21st century will be fine. They’re automatic unmanned and give plenty of time for embarking. Great idea!
As potential future DVC buyers (and huge Star Wars fans), this would make Caribbean Beach far more appealing. Our one stay there was filled with bus frustration. It was one stay, but it has certainly deterred us from revisiting. That said, if it offered easy transport to two parks, it would be very interesting as the Mod-luxe DVC resort.
Hmmmm…I guess it’s called progress, but I believe transportation like this direct from a resort should be left only for the deluxe resorts. Not that guests at value or moderates don’t deserve transportation (there are still buses as you mentioned), but deluxe resort guests pay a premium to get top notch of everything.
You can rest assured that, if this is added, Disney will not hesitate to reflect the perk (and then some) in resort pricing.
I think the point is to get everyone paying a premium.
Ah, but at a certain price, when will they drive business off resort and onto Irlo Bronson and I-4?
This could be what they were testing with those balloons by Hollywood Studios and Caribbean Beach.
One set of height balloons were for the Caribbean Beach DVC buildings (which will be taller) themselves. Another set was likely for this. My bet is that these operate at a fairly low height where possible to prevent sightlines from being an issue.
While a lot of people have fond memories of the Skyway, it did offer views backstage and (IMO) was an eyesore. Hopefully that will be avoided to the greatest extent possible with these gondolas.
I saw this over at WDWMagic and at first assumed it was wishful thinking. If it is indeed true, that’s pretty cool. As you say, the novelty of the transportation experience (even if it is becoming more common world-wide) would be a strong selling point. And it should be more efficient than a bus with higher throughput and a more direct path.
By biggest concern would be that these are in a thunderstorm/hurricane zone, but perhaps they wouldn’t have to be that high off the ground. I’d also have a concern over being “backstage” at Epcot, but perhaps they wouldn’t have to have windows.
This is super interesting. I would love to see this come to pass. It would definitely make Caribbean Beach a more interesting DVC property (because before, I was just thinking: why?) and it would add a novelty form of transportation that they could add onto relatively cheaply. I still wish they would add onto the Monorail, but I know that will never happen. This and all the resort refurbs do seem to hit at a level of added investment that we haven’t seen in years. To that, I say: CHEERS!
I love Pop and would be excited for something like Gondolas to come to the resort (yes for novelty purposes).
Can you source this rumor to put things more into context?
“In fact, if the rumored room enhancements at Pop Century occur, that and the gondola could be enough for Pop Century to “become” a Moderate.”
The ‘room enhancements’ part is firsthand knowledge. The part about upgrading Pop Century to a Moderate is pure speculation.
I meant more so the specifics that go along with room enhancements. I assume they would have to do more than apply some fresh paint or put up new curtains (in addition to a new form of transportation) to be able to consider Pop a “moderate” resort. Given the size of the rooms I’m wondering what enhancements could be made to warrant a bump.
Personally I like the idea but it would be a scary over-crowding situation if they try to pack on as many ‘extra’ people like they do on the buses. I’ve seen really large groups getting off the buses and always wondered how they pack so many people on.
We always stay at a resort with monorail or walking access but if we want to go direct and fast we drive.
I don’t see that being an issue with gondolas. There is a constant stream that would be loading, so there’s really no incentive to cram on, as another one would be at the station within a matter of seconds. By contrast, everyone wants to hop aboard a bus because no one knows when the next one will be there.
My only reservation is that possibility that my beloved Pop Century might suddenly be priced out of my standard range. But the perk of direct park transportation might be totally worth it!
Pop Century basically already has its own line of transportation being the only value resort with a dedicated bus line, so that’s an interesting choice to add it there. I’d think one from the All Stars would be more enticing, but those are also much further away, which of course would cost more.
Either way, this seems… strange. From the images people are posting, what is the main route they think this will take? Say, to get to Epcot from Pop would you have to go to DHS, then Carribean, then finally over to EPCOT? And vice versa, having to stop at those other two places before finally getting to the final stop, or would there be a transfer at all to bypass?
A dedicated bus is a selling point, but it’s still a bus. People can ride busses anywhere. The novelty of other forms of transportation is the allure, and I’d hazard a guess that people would pay a premium for a resort with gondola transportation even if it were less efficient than a bus. The ‘journey’ itself becomes part of the experience. No one says that about buses.
We just stayed at AKL in January and it has as a “Dedicated” or “exclusive” bus to everywhere due to its remote location and it still took us over an hour (including wait time) to arrive at Epcot and Magic Kingdom via bus… constriction is still being done (always being done) and one bus driver confirmed it is hard for them to stay on schedule anymore. Clearly transportation is becoming a big issue.
Aside from that, we had dinner at the Beach Club and then wanted to jump a bus to take us to Epcot to transfer back to AKL… NO GO – apparently the only method of transportation from this resort to Epcot is to walk? Normally we wouldn’t mind but we had a sleepy baby and time was of the essence. So the bus driver recommended going to MK or Disney Springs and transferring there – it took us almost 2 hours to get back to out room from the Beach Club. I remember when I was younger and stayed on property there was a bus available everywhere even if another method of transport (boat/monorail/walking-path) was available. Clearly they are trying to reduce bus routes and while this makes fiscal sense it also made us cancel our dinning reservation for the Boardwalk because we couldn’t get there from another resort very easily anymore. 🙁
I don’t know, every time I ride the bus it’s an adventure. Walk up right as it is leaving, wait 20 minutes for the next one, lug the stroller, bags, and fussy children aboard, just to have the driver leave the bus because it is break time. 10 minutes later a new driver comes aboard. Oh, the a/c isn’t working.
Oh my bus ride 2 weeks ago was quite a journey! The driver was pulling into POR and crashed into a pole! shattered his window, knocked off his side mirror and then failed to tell anyone what was going on as we sat and waited (we couldn’t leave the bus) for 30 minutes for another bus to come pick us up and take us a whole 40 feet to the bus stop inside the resort. I was lucky enough to be standing in the very front of the bus and watch the whole thing happen. Fun times!