Is Disney World Going Bigger & Bolder on Villains Land?
A new rumor is swirling that Walt Disney World’s initial plans for the upcoming Villains Land at Magic Kingdom have been “scrapped,” and Imagineering has gone back to the drawing board to come up with bigger and bolder ideas. Here’s a rumor rundown, plus our commentary about why this is happening, what probably is not changing, and why this is good news for WDW fans.
We’re reporting on this rumor because it’s at least superficially plausible, vaguely aligning with rumblings we’ve heard, current company-wide events, and development timelines. Major mid-stream changes are possible in part because Villains Land is the odds-on favorite to be the last land to open during Walt Disney World’s 5-Year Plan, and will probably debut in 2030.
There’s also the fact that very little has been revealed since Villains Land was first announced at the 2024 D23 Expo. Or even during that event! Since then, all we’ve learned is that Villains Land will feature “Conjured Architecture,” which is basically a cursed twist on Art Nouveau. Disney also revealed the 13 classic villains who will be featured in Villains Land. But that’s really about it.
Beyond that, the original announcement teased that Villains Land is a place where poison apples are aplenty and magic potions can ruin your whole day; where once upon a dream is actually once upon a nightmare. It’s a place where “happily ever after may feel like just a distant dream,” shared Josh D’Amaro when making the announcement.
Substantively, Disney has announced that Villains Land at Magic Kingdom will be home to two major attractions, dining, and shopping on an incredibly twisted grand scale. “It’s going to be a fearless new vision for what a Disney experience can be,” Josh D’Amaro teased when announcing Villains Land.
It is widely believed that Villains Land will include an outdoor “story coaster” and an indoor family-friendly dark ride. This is based on a mixture of concept art (however vague), informed speculation, permits & documents filed with Florida, and a dash of credible rumors.
Against that backdrop, we have the latest rumor that comes from Len Testa of TouringPlans and the Disney Dish Podcast with Jim Hill, which is making a splash on social media. This is the type of thing Len would often discuss on the Disney Dish, but I’m not sure whether he’s elaborated on the rumor on his podcast. For those who are unfamiliar with Len, he’s credible and connected; he’s gotten a lot right over the years.
Here’s what he wrote:
I’m hearing the initial plans for Villains Land have been scrapped. Imagineers have been told to think of bigger, bolder ideas. Budget secondary.
Not sure if this is “new players, new game” re: Josh as CEO.
Just so everyone is on the same page, this should not be construed as Villains Land being cancelled. It is very much still full steam ahead. The largest-ever Magic Kingdom expansion is still happening, and there’s every reason to believe it’ll still feature Piston Peak National Park and Villains Land.
It strikes me as superficially plausible that Villains Land has changed from the initial plans. At least, in a loose and partial sense. Let’s quickly run through the reasons.
When Villains Land was announced, only concept art that was simultaneously detailed but vague was released. It showed the contours of the land, but didn’t give away much about the attractions. Despite a lot of fan speculation, there was always a lot of leeway for Disney to adjust its plans within the parameters of the aforementioned “two major attractions, dining, and shopping.” Right off the bat, this was a signal to me that there was fluidity in the plans.
Of course Villains Land was going to have a restaurant and retail, so it’s really only the 2 headliner rides that were flexible. We’ll know for sure the plans have changed if it ends up having a single E-Ticket, or 3 headliners, or 2 headliners plus 3 flat rides. Etc. But if the plan remains two major attractions, it’ll be impossible to confirm or refute the “plans have changed” rumor.
Even today, Villains Land is still ~4 years away. It was ~6 years away when first announced.
Back then, we discussed how this was essentially phase 2 of the Beyond Big Thunder project, and Disney is notorious for second phases of projects being cancelled entirely or changing considerably. We also pointed out that Disney would have a CEO change before construction began in earnest on Villains Land.
And in fact, this is accurate. Josh D’Amaro will soon become CEO, and actual construction has not yet commenced, only site prep (see this weekend’s new Villains Land & Piston Peak Construction Update). This means there has been and is still the opportunity for adjustments or enhancements to Villains Land.
There is also the motive for betting bigger on the expansion, with the new CEO having the chance to make his own mark on the company with big and bold changes early during his tenure. There’s also the perception, whether accurate or not (I think it is) that Villains Land is D’Amaro’s baby, and will nurture it accordingly.
Back at the last D23, Villains Land was the announcement that got the biggest and most enthusiastic response.
Prior to that, it was my understanding that Disney was uncertain how Villains Land would be received, and wanted to gauge the response. Both with the in-person and at-home audiences. It was and continues to be overwhelming positive.
It also was my understanding that there were internal apprehensions about moving forward with Villains Land. That it would be “too dark” or “not sufficiently mainstream” for Magic Kingdom, and debate about just how much budget to blow. (Although I cannot corroborate it, I suspect being burned by Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge caused a bit of reticence and is why the “safer” counterpart of Cars was chosen.)
My impression is that Disney has become increasingly bullish on Villains Land. Beyond the fan response, it’s the project for which creatives are most excited, as discussed in our article about Walt Disney Imagineering’s Comeback. Likewise, it sounds like the project for which the new CEO is most excited, as suggested by his outward enthusiasm for Villains Land during My Meeting with Josh D’Amaro.
This has been reinforced by countless conversations I’ve had over the course of the last year-plus. It’s sometimes difficult to separate the idle gossip from the baseless bluster to the real rumor, but the picture that has been painted by the totality of these talks is that Villains Land is going to be the blockbuster addition.
Villains Land is not going to suffer the typical phase 2 fate of dying a quiet death or being value-engineered to mediocrity. Rather, it’ll overdeliver and make a statement. Imagineers being told to dream bigger is unequivocally good news. It’s also not brand-new news, from what I’ve heard.
Some of this has come in response to Dark Universe at Epic Universe. This is probably unsurprising, as Villains Land is viewed by some fans as an “answer” to that. Even in the absence of credible rumors, Walt Disney World fans have correctly speculated that Imagineering has to deliver something bigger and better than Dark Universe.
From what I’ve heard (and this should all be filed in the gossip bucket), Imagineers were not blown away by Dark Universe…but they were by Monsters Unchained: The Frankenstein Experiment, the flagship dark ride in the land.
They were likewise impressed by the Wizarding World of Harry Potter – Ministry of Magic, both the land itself and the two attractions in it (dark ride and show). That these two attractions, show, and Ministry of Magic exceeded expectations. (The versions of the story I’ve heard are a bit more embellished than that.)
Although it’s gossip, this also all strikes me as plausible. Those two rides are envelope-pushing, as is Ministry of Magic as a whole. If anything, though, visiting Dark Universe had me slightly concerned about Villains Land. It’s the weakest of the worlds in Epic Universe, and set a pretty low bar aside from its marquee ride (thankfully, that is exceptional). But that’s probably another topic for another post.
Separately, I’ve heard credible chatter that the company is investing more in Parks & Resorts as a whole and Walt Disney World specifically than previously announced. I don’t know if this is the consequence of inflations, tariffs, or the substance of the plans getting more ambitious. I also don’t know if this means more money allocated towards what’s already been announced, or other projects that are in the pipeline.
With all of that said, I’ve heard absolutely nothing to suggest that the ‘meat’ of the plans for Villains Land have changed. Which is to say that, to the best of my knowledge, Villains Land still consists of a roller coaster and a dark ride, plus retail and a restaurant.
If those foundational elements are unchanged, I would have a difficult time saying the plans have been “scrapped” or that Imagineering has gone back to the drawing board. This is more a matter of enhancing existing plans to unlock their full potential than starting from square one with a blank slate.
In other words, it’s probably not like what happened early during the development of what became Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge or Fantasy Springs (both of which actually became ‘bigger and bolder’ projects). It’s probably not even akin to New Fantasyland, which (thankfully) had Seven Dwarfs Mine Train added after the original announcement.
What’s more likely from my perspective is that Disney is going to bigger and bolder within the previously established parameters. Meaning that we aren’t going to see new permits that deviate from the recent Filing Revealing Show Building Sizes & Locations of Cars & Villains Lands. (I’m still not convinced that shows all of the buildings, but regardless, I don’t expect it to be refiled.)
That instead of cutting Audio Animatronics or reducing the budgets for show scenes, they’re going to spend more freely. As a (made up) example, maybe instead of a limited-motion figure of Maleficent in Dragon form, we’re going to get a ‘statement scene’ on par with the Department of Magical Creatures with an advanced Audio Animatronics chasing guests. Perhaps the placemaking on the roller coaster is better, with more done to conceal the track and make it more of a story coaster.
Basically, my bet is that Disney is pulling a “Reverse Toy Story Land” with Villains Land. That they’re going to go full John Hammond on Villains Land, albeit within the original plan’s parameters. That it’ll have polish and detail on par with Tokyo DisneySea as opposed to a normal Walt Disney World project.
At this point, I’m not expecting any fundamental changes to the expansion as a whole, but rather, a bigger budget and bolder execution of the ideas Imagineers already have. I also wouldn’t expect this to materially delay the project in the same way that actually scrapping the previous plans would. If Imagineers truly went back to the drawing board, Villains Land probably is no longer a 2030 project.
That may not sound as exciting as Imagineers being told to dream (nightmare?) ‘bigger and bolder,’ but keep in mind that the typical phase 2 trajectory is cost-cutting and value-engineering. That’s what could’ve happened if someone else was named Disney’s next CEO, especially if that person got cold feet about a darker concept in the Magic Kingdom.
If these Villains Land plans end up being even modestly more ambitious than before, that alone is a win and departure from the historical norm. And I absolutely think that’ll be true–that Imagineering wants this to be a home run, has the ideas and talent to deliver one, and will also get the budget for it.
Beyond all of the above, I would speculate that Disney has been emboldened to do this not just on the basis of fan response to Villains Land or the quality of Monsters Unchained or Josh D’Amaro wanting to make a mark as new CEO. I’m guessing they also have spending data to support the decision.
Part of this is merchandise sales, food & beverage, etc. More significant is line-skipping product. Since the announcement, they’ve launched Lightning Lane Premier Pass. They’ve seen the staying power of Lightning Lane Single Pass. They’ve also seen the unprecedented demand for comparable products at Fantasy Springs in Tokyo DisneySea.
They know that the dollars spent to build mega E-Tickets will have direct ROI, especially as Walt Disney World moves more upmarket (see Rich Rescued Walt Disney World from Spending Slump). Two bona fide blockbusters and an ambitious land will be a license to print money, opening the door for selling more Lightning Lanes and untold other premium products (custom vacation packages, VIP tours, new dessert parties and dining packages, etc).
It’s going to be interesting when Magic Kingdom has 4 Lightning Lane Single Pass attractions, but that’s exactly where I think things are heading. (Three added from the Beyond Big Thunder expansion, and SDMT demoted to LLMP.)
There’s every reason to believe Disney is going big and bold on Villains Land. Even before this rumor, Imagineering President Bruce Vaughn said he’s been “blown away” by the concepts for Magic Kingdom.
The Beyond Big Thunder project scope and scale are supposedly on par with Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge or Pandora – World of Avatar. Vaughn also indicated that the project would exceed New Fantasyland, and be the biggest expansion in Magic Kingdom history. D’Amaro has made similar comments, some of which have felt like a tease for the big reveal.
We believe all of that, and are likewise bullish on Villains Land. This is one of those rare occasions where the stars align and what’s good for investors is good for guests. Parks & Resorts has proven a financial powerhouse for the company–strong and stable even as other business units have faltered. Expanding Magic Kingdom improves capacity, gives the park more drawing power, is fun for fans, and will offer tremendous ROI. (All lessons learned back in 2009, proving yet again that history repeats itself!)
Given all of this, it honestly wouldn’t surprise me if ‘bigger and bolder’ with the plans actually does end up resulting in an additional attraction being greenlit for Villains Land. I don’t think that’s what has actually happened here, at least not yet, but it wouldn’t be the least bit surprising if we got a “…but wait, there’s more” reveal at the 2026 D23 Expo.
As for how we will know that Josh D’Amaro told Imagineers to dream bigger and bolder with Villains Land in the absence of a third attraction given how little has been publicly announced, honestly, I suspect he’ll tell us. Disney has a rich history of doing things exactly like this, and weaving it into lore about their rising star leaders.
Whether it happens during the upcoming Shareholder Meeting or at the 2026 D23 Expo or sometime in between, I strongly suspect we’re going to get a slate of “New Sheriff in Town” announcements from Josh D’Amaro that vindicate theme park fans who are optimistic about the new CEO and future of Walt Disney World. Or maybe I’m just wishcasting. Time will tell!
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What do you think of the rumor that Imagineering is being told to dream bigger and bolder with Villains Land? Believe this will actually happen, or think the typical phase 2 trajectory of cost-cutting and value-engineering is more likely? Still in ‘wait and see’ mode? Do you agree or disagree with our assessments? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Decades and decades later, they would never regret the money they spent to make a direct Fantasyland to Villains Land connection.
I absolutely agree with you in theory, but the logistics of that strike me as tricky if the show building for the dark ride is going behind HM and IASW.
Of course, where there’s a will, there’s a way. Tokyo DisneySea proves that a lot of clever things can be done with bridges over backstage roads (etc).
Today, live from the D23 Ultimate Fan Event at the Honda Center, Disney Experiences Chairman Josh D’Amaro ignited the crowd with a first look at the Walt Disney World 55th Anniversary: Happiest Celebration! Inspired by the kinetic energy and iridescent “ribbon” aesthetic of Tokyo Disney Resort’s legendary 35th Anniversary Happiest Celebration!, this resort-wide milestone will transform Magic Kingdom, EPCOT, Disney’s Hollywood Studios, and Disney’s Animal Kingdom into a shimmering kaleidoscope of dreams starting Spring 2026.
A Vision in Concept Art: “Celestial Flight”
The hallmark of the 55th Anniversary is the “Celestial Flight” wardrobe for Mickey Mouse and his Friends. Concept art reveals elaborate costumes featuring multi-layered iridescent fabrics and golden “dream-ribbon” trim that shimmer under the Florida sun, mirroring the visual language of the Tokyo 35th anniversary imagery.
The Anthem: “Where Dreams Take Flight”
The celebration is anchored by the Official Anniversary Anthem: “Where Dreams Take Flight.” This soaring, high-energy pop-orchestral track will serve as the heartbeat of the resort, playing during new “Beacons of Magic” lightings at all four theme parks.
Entertainment Reimagined
New Daytime Parade: “Disney Dreams in Flight”
Replacing the Festival of Fantasy parade, this 8-unit spectacle introduces verticality and aerial performance to the Magic Kingdom parade route.
Global Heritage: The parade incorporates reimagined versions of the Alice in Wonderland and Pinocchio units formerly seen in Tokyo Disneyland’s Dreaming Up! parade.
Aerial Innovations: The units feature bungee-jumping butterflies, trampoline acrobats, and performers on harness systems to emphasize the theme of flight.
Musical Debut: Featuring the high-energy “Bumble Boogie” (from Melody Time) and a tribute to the Steadfast Tin Soldier and Ballerina from the 2026 WDAS short film.
New Nighttime Show: “Disney Tales of Magic”
A state-of-the-art nighttime spectacular that turns Cinderella Castle and the buildings of Main Street, U.S.A. into a living storybook. The show utilizes immersive projection mapping and over 20 iconic tracks to celebrate the pursuit of dreams.
New Castle Stage Show: “Cinderellabration: Dream of Romance”
A grand royal coronation ceremony inspired by the Lights of Romance spectacle.
The Royal Court: For the first time, classic couples are joined on stage by Ariel & Eric and Anna & Elsa, all dressed in “Celestial Flight” celebration attire.
Resort-Wide Magic
While Magic Kingdom serves as the heart, the “Dreaming Celebration” extends across all four parks:
EPCOT: Debuting “Soarin’ Across America” in celebration of America 250 and 55 years of flight.
Disney’s Hollywood Studios: A new Mickey Mouse Clubhouse Live! show and the opening of The Magic of Disney Animation.
Disney’s Animal Kingdom: The debut of Zootopia: Better Zoogether! at the Tree of Life.
Media Contact:
Magic Kingdom Press Kit Office
Walt Disney World Communications
Mickey’s 35th Anniversary Outfit Details
This sounds like great news, and the right way to go from a business perspective.
I do hope the Imagineers didn’t like Battle at the Ministry too much. I thought the queue was fantastic, probably Universal’s best queue. But it built expectations for the ride too high and I was underwhelmed by the ride. Too screen based, I hope Disney doesn’t go that route.
That’s a good idea.
A great idea would be ditching “Piston Peak” altogether, and doubling the size of the Dark Kingdom!
Maybe Piston Peak will actually be an extension of Villains land — instead of Lightning McQueen and Mater and the Radiator Springs gang, everything will revolve around Chick Hicks, Sir Miles Axlerod, Professor Zündapp, Jackson Storm, and Sterling.
C’mon, WDI — nothing bigger and bolder than this totally sane, guest-friendly, and workable idea!
Commenters like James below are correct — this isn’t a dark, Halloween Horror Nights style experience, it’s “kiddie level badguys that will take selfies with you.”
Here’s the very important note that’s very rarely mentioned here or on other blogs: If you have kids who’ve been pre-teens at any time in the past 10 years, you’ll know that the Descendants movies on Disney Channel have been massive hits — these are musical films that explore the lives of the teenage children of the most iconic Disney villains, who have been banished to a “Villains Land” named the Isle of the Lost, and get invited to mingle and attend high school with the kids of famous Disney heroes and princesses in the “Magic Kingdom” of Auradon. These movies have spawned many sequels and paved the way for the Disney “Zombies” franchise which is also huge. There was a huge sold-out “Descendants/Zombies Worlds Collide” tour in 2024 that’s coming to Disney+.
Now, of course Villains Land isn’t going to be based directly on these franchises, but I’m telling all of you people — THIS IS WHY THEY’RE BUILDING IT. The generation who’s grown up on these films/songs is between 8 and 25 years old right now (with lots of older fans, too). In the 2030s these are the next “Disney Adults” and DINKs who will be driving the next phase of guest spending. Villains Land is for them, I promise you. It’ll be made for everyone, but the wild success of Descendants/Zombies is the impetus for this thematic choice.
I would hope that Villains Land has a more interesting visual aesthetic than Isle of the Lost from Descendants. Those TV movies had outstanding songs and a great cast, but the budget did seem appropriately limited to what was expected for a TV movie, and visually it was good enough but did stay with the expectations of a TV movie. Same could be said for “High School Musical”. I’m much more excited about “Conjured Architecture … basically a cursed twist on Art Nouveau” than I would be about a real-life implementation of the Isle of the Lost.
To clarify my thoughts, I don’t think any of Villains Land will really look or feel like the Descendants universe (even with its popularity within its demographic, that world isn’t appropriate or iconic enough for a broader audience). Even a Descendants musical revue will feel dated/nostalgic by 2030, just as a High School Musical stage show would feel that way today. I just believe that the concept of leaning into the darker, more villainous/monstrous side of the Disney “ouvre” is already being fully embraced by the late Gen Z and early Gen Alpha demographic. It’s baked into how they view the Disney Universe (Games like “Kingdom Hearts” also lean into these themes). The Maleficent movies, Cruella, and non-Disney films like “Joker” also feature villains as sympathetic/misunderstood protagonists. The idea that Disney villains might be more than one-dimensional caricatures is a newer way of thinking (at least within the popular culture) that these younger generations have tapped into, and is never going away. Descendants/Zombies just happens to be the franchises that proved the staying power of this trend.
I expect them to incorporate some of the descendants/zombies franchise in to the new land. it would explain possibly why they are pumping them out on Disney channel so so fast. like high school musical but with hsm there wasn’t really a good location for it long term in wdw. with zombies or descendants it can have long staying power as the stories or the villains children
With an 11yo Zombies ultra fan and Descendants lover in my house, I hope you’re right!!!
Honestly, Gen Z and Alpha have never and are never gonna watch the original Seven Dwarves and Sleeping Beauty movies.
If we’re pulling inspiration from Epic Universe, I hope they really look at Isle of Berk. First of all, Hiccup’s Wing Gliders is an exceptional story coaster (way better than 7DMT); take the pacing and fun factor of that and add some supersized animatronics and you will have something truly special. More importantly, there’s a lot of stuff to do in Berk. 4 rides total, an elaborate play area, a big show, multiple restaurants, and a truly special meet and greet.
As impressive as Wizarding Paris is to look at, I found it to feel a bit sparse once you get over the initial wow moment of entering. I can’t believe I’m saying this, but I honestly think they need more shops (the number of fake store fronts is wild to me). They absolutely need the second ride that was cut during development and has maybe/probably already been greenlit as an expansion. Yes Battle at the Ministry is incredible but having one ride in a whole land is not enough, especially for what is going to be one of the major draws for the park.
Agreed! There’s clearly a lot of room for expansion at Epic. Mario and Dragons are well-designed, while Dark and Paris feel a little empty. But I get that’ll get resolved in the next five years.
“Imagineers being told to dream (nightmare?) bigger and bolder”
Perhaps instead of “nightmare” as a verb, the evil version of dreaming is scrying? Sorta like Galadriel’s enthralling yet menacing scene with Frodo at the Mirror. Here’s hoping Villains Land can be just as memorable as that iconic scene. All will love it (if it’s as successful as we are hoping)… and despair (if they didn’t buy Lightning Lane).
I think you said it in the article Tom. To quote Neil Patrick Harris “We’re going bigger. We’re going bigger…” works both ways. More e-tickets = more uncharges. Sure we get increased attendance but the key here in the new world of paid line skipping a LLSP e-ticket like Tron will mean the ride has paid for itself inside 5yrs. Tron probably generates over $10m a year in SP revenue excluding all the people that buy LLMP. Add in the merch and food sales. Going bigger makes sense.
Making Villains Land the bigger and bolder addition is like “what are they thinking” if it isn’t already. What comes to mind is the botched Epcot rehabilitation that did nothing for the central plaza and the awful Imagination ride. Disney burns through their budgets and got nothing to show.
Will Disney finally make a Villains roller coaster with an extra 1000 feet of track unlike the 90 seconds Tron roller coaster? Will there be a dark ride that wows the audience like in their overseas parks because the audience expects more and somehow Disney thinks American audiences expect less like the Sequel Trilogy Rise of Skywalker Palpatine? We already have a flavor from the awful Villains show in the Studios park. That’s modern Disney.
I actually enjoyed the Villains show last November. I thought it was great.
looking at concept art I can totally see what looks to be a viney rollercoaster with a loop or two.
I see you tempering expectations, but what the heck, let us dream. I’m tired of the cookie cutter expansions of roughly 2 attractions, a shop, and a restaurant. An expansion is kind of lame when you feel like you’re in and out of it in a flash and have done everything there is to do. We want wonder and and DENSITY of points of interest. The latter is one notable thing Universal excelled at with regards to their Harry Potter lands and WDW flubbed at with Galaxy’s Edge. I hope Josh can right the ship and invest more in this kind of thing. Fans can just tell when something is cheaped out on.
FWIW, I 100% agree with you and *want to believe* that Aaron is right and this is a pulling forward of phase 2 of Villains Land right from the jump. I think that plus spending lavishly on a DisneySea-esque land is the best case scenario and the right course of action for this blockbuster land.
I just don’t think it’s quite that extreme. Would love to be wrong!
Agreed! I really hope the land launches with a third attraction (or an elaborate show in a purpose built venue). 2 E-tickets, a supporting ride, a show, one quick service and one table service/character dining restaurant would be fantastic!
I would never be good higher level management, because I would have called this “Approving Phase 2 Now and Bringing It Forward” or something else that downplays the immensity of the decision. It is roughly time to start filling in the blanks of Year 6, and this makes it clear that there won’t be any Chapek-sized holes in the New for WDW calendar any time soon. While I’m a big fan of the two day park concept that Iger mentioned more than once, Josh D’Amaro earns that “first name energy” in my mind space by playing to WDW’s strength and pushing the MK towards a 3-day park space. (Building VL P2 larger but also earlier seems like it’s making space for more MK attention in the second half of the ten year plan.)
Now I’m excited for DL, too, and not confuse a zoning decision for a building plan, either!
If this actually is approving phase 2 of Villains Land preemptively, that truly would be big and bold. Honestly, I don’t think that’s what it is…but he absolutely would earn “first name energy” (I like that…it’s more family-friendly than the alternative). Imagine him coming out at D23 and saying, “we’ve heard fans loud and clear, so we’ve already greenlit an expansion to Villains Land before it even opens!”
I really hope that when they design Villains Land, they create some kind of imposing facade or something behind the castle such that they can run an alternate fireworks show from Villains Land with Villains-themed music and projections. Adding all that park capacity without adding fireworks capacity seems like a recipe for dissatisfied guests to me.
I have a hard time believing that they will have four single passes in MK and that the family dark ride will be one. All other LLSP rides have height requirements and are thrill rides, and having as many or more SP rides in MK as in the other three parks combined would be weird.
Great point about alternative fireworks viewing. When I mentioned dessert parties and dining packages in passing, that was what I had in mind (e.g. Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge at Disneyland).
Frozen Ever After, Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure, and Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway were all a la carte Lightning Lane attractions at one time. I would be shocked if both rides in Villains Land aren’t LLSP. I would hazard a guess LLSP is a big factor in the greenlighting process now.
Keep in mind that the other parks are opening their expansions first, so MK won’t have more LLSP than the other 3 parks combined by 2030.
Thanks for replying, Tom. I also had Disneyland Galaxy’s Edge in mind, though I didn’t realize they had monetized the second viewing location. Makes sense though – Disney is monetizing everything they can now, just like the rest of the world.
When did Frozen Ever After have a la carte LL? I’d forgotten that Remy’s and Disneyland MMRR had it for a short time, but I still maintain that those rides didn’t have the LLSP staying power of thrill rides. I also don’t see how Epcot or AK gets more than one LLSP by 2030. Epcot isn’t opening any major new attractions (and they made Test Track LLMP, which arguably did a lot to make LLMP worthwhile in that park). And AK also needs more LLMP attractions to make that have tiers and be worth purchasing. HS will (and should) probably get another LLSP when the Monstropolis coaster opens. But that still only brings the non-MK LLSP count to 4. So MK could have 3, and they could increase the max LLSP you can purchase per day to 3, and you would still need 3 days to purchase all LLSP. But maybe I’m making assumptions that the number you can purchase per day is equal to the max number in a single park, and that Disney wants to require a 3 day Hopper to be able to purchase them all.
I do think that if Villains Land were just two LLSP attractions and dining and shopping, it would be bad optics and really obvious that the new land is only to suck more money out of guests, not to improve the guest experience. Add in 1-2 minor (Tier 2) attractions, a show, and some meet and greets, and you have a full land that people will enjoy spending time in, not just beeline in and out and complain about how long they stood in line. Hopefully we’ll get the full land with this return to the drawing board!
Rides and restaurants tend to be a big focus for fans, but in addition I hope part of the possible upgrades involve the ambiance of the land itself. Stone streets (I would say cobblestone but that’s probably an accessibility issue), New Orleans Square / Main Street level of detail in the architecture, surprising details (in my mind I picture a town square with street lamps that intermittently illuminate in colors and patterns that represent different villains, maybe with a few obscure ones that are fun to guess – things like that).
One thing that just came to mind – I feel there’s a good chance this land will come with a variety of potential “in app purchases” – Bootique, digital game, wands (give up the ghost and just copy Universal on that one Disney, people don’t point with the top of their wrist), maybe something like the Dr. Facilier card reading they have on cruise ships. So this might be a stretch, but I think they may have an equivalent of the lightsaber experience, as that’s been a big success as far as I can tell. Fun to ponder what that one might be.
Totally agree with your first point. I’m writing another article that touches upon this, and I draw a comparison to Tokyo DisneySea (specifically, their Toy Story Mania and Soaring versus ours). But New Orleans Square also works!
Always safe to bet on the add-on or upcharge. Universal has done this brilliantly with the WWoHP wands and Nintendo Power-Up bands.
I have had it with Disney Corp with its destruction of Walt’s ideas and dreams. This Villain Park description says it all “happily ever after may feel like just a distant dream” They need to stop trying to be Universal Park. Begin following the Disney International Parks – especially Tokyo. They know how to follow Walt’s Dreams, with magnificent structures and rides that bring happily ever after to life.
USA Disney Corp fails to enhance the Happily Ever After. They throw things together when it comes to building structures for the true Disney movies. The ones that bring tears of joy to everyone watching them.
WDW Beast’s Castle is nothing more than a restaurant front with no magic at all. Frozen in Epcot is a cheap renewal of the Norwegian ride. They destroyed Rivers of America for a Cars ride, when they could have created a “Frozen” Kingdom.
The 2 Frozen movies have made more money for Disney than the 3 movies of Cars. Frozen’s combination of high box office, immense merchandising, and STRONG THEME PARK PRESENCE makes it a higher overall earner. Yet USA Disney chooses to build an entire land for cars while the international parks have a Frozen Kingdom. (Could it be because Frozen was a Walt’s idea going back to the 1930’s?)
Villains, Cars and thrill rides should be at Hollywood Studios or Epcot. Leave Magic Kingdom for the MAGIC!
Side comment: Tokyo Disney also has a magnificent Beast’s castle that has a ride which exceeds the wonders of the Haunted Mansion.
I think this is a fair point when it comes to Rivers of America, or even some of the properties prioritized for domestic expansion. And I would agree that, generally speaking, the investments in TDR have been more to my personal tastes.
But I also think Frozen is an odd example to use, given that WDW greenlit that ASAP and got it open fast. A full decade earlier than the same ride in Paris! It’s unfortunate that Frozen didn’t get a whole land, I agree with that, but the retrofit of Maelstrom has now formed the foundation of 3 subsequent attractions (ride profile for Tokyo).
Walt absolutely embraced villains, and I’d fully expect Villains Land to highlight a couple from Walt-era films. I would also expect that dark ride to rival Enchanted Tale of Beauty and the Beast, outside and in.
I have similar feelings! Why ruin the magical happy park with fear and creepiness? If Walt wanted that much darkness at his park, he could have built it. But he didn’t! He understood the lesson that we all should have learned from the Monsters Inc movies….Joy is MUCH more powerful than fear! 7 year old kids won’t look back and have positive core family memories from that time they got scared to death in Villains Land…but those special magical moments watching fireworks on Main Street, or going through the Peter Pan queue and ride for the first time, or meeting your favorite princess at the table for a character meal, or getting goosebumps during a night parade as you realize how grateful you are for a day like today with your family (as I did decades ago). This land belongs in Hollywood Studios! I wish they would leave that “je ne sais quoi” Magic Kingdom feeling alone! It cheapens the magic for me with a thrill I can get at Universal if I want it.
I also don’t really understand the level of excitement about adding a villains land to MK…I’m a fan of the old school villains, but it doesn’t feel like it belongs there to me. First, the land is too specific in relation to MK’s other lands and will stick out like a sore thumb. Second, I really think that a villains land needs to be sufficiently ominous and scary to live up to its potential, and I don’t love the idea of there being an ominous and scary land at MK. If it’s done right, it’ll scare the crap out of little kids who will inevitably get dragged back there by some parents. (Even possible sightlines would be enough to scare some kids. For example, when I was 7, our balcony had a view of the Tower of Terror, and I still have memories of how creeped out I was just by seeing it lit up at night from my bed!) Third, if Defunctland’s Fast Pass video is correct, adding more E-tickets is going to make that park more crowded. Not to mention literally every other park at WDW needs attractions more than MK does right now, even after all the current projects wrap up.
Lol – you guys are making it sound like villans land will be like Halloween horror nights or something. I guarantee this will be kiddie level badguys that will take selfies with you
Walt also built Snow White’s Scary Adventures and Mr. Toad’s Wild ride (where you literally go to hell) and stuck them in the Happiest Place on Earth. I have a tough time believing he was against some good natured scares for children.
James is right, I will be *shocked* if this is any more frightening than Haunted Mansion. Any villains actually present in the land will be like Gaston or Lady Tremaine and the stepsisters where they are more likely to goof off than actually scare anyone. Also, the land will be located in a part of the park that you have to actively choose to go to, so for anyone who does feel it is too scary for them or their kids can just…not go there. It’s not like you will have to walk through the area to get anywhere else in the park.
If this is true it sounds like purely great news to me, with even better future implications. I really hope they break past the two rides per land trend.
As a big art nouveau fan, I really hope they still follow through with the conjured architecture idea. That sounds so perfectly themed and artistically ambitious to me, I love the idea of it.
Jared its not the ride/rides being built in Magic Kingdom – it is the land of Villains. If you have noticed – both Snow Whites Scary Adventure and Mr. Toad’s ride have been changed to children friendly rides. I didn’t mind Walt’s designs of these rides nor the Haunted Mansion. Their buildings blended in with MK. Again Villains are not just a few rides its a land. This new land is “happily ever after may feel like just a distant dream”. This is totally against the theme of the Magic Kingdom. I just believe “Magic” Kingdom is not the place for this new land. Hollywood Studios would be a better fit. The planned fireworks display and scary buildings would be a nice addition to that park. Frozen Kingdom, Beauty & the Beast Kingdom they both have beautiful colorful castles – made for Magic Kingdom.
Great news! I cannot wait to see what Disney does with Villains land. I think assuming a villains land would be too scary or unappealing for young families would be a big mistake. No one is better than Disney at making traditionally “scary” things accessible — look no further than Haunted Mansion for that. When we planned our first trip to Disney, my kids were middle school aged and we considered skipping Magic Kingdom because they were convinced it was “too babyish.” Thankfully, we ultimately went and loved it, but the perception still exists and Villains land will only help expand MK’s reach by combating that. Love to see it!
For the big E-Ticket, rather than a hodgepodge of Villains lumped into one ride with a complicated backstory, I think Sleeping Beauty’s third act holds all you need for a dramatic, thrilling, and satisfying experience. Recreate Maleficent’s castle in the Forbidden Mountains — we find Prince Phillip being taunted by Maleficent in the dungeon, he is rescued by the three fairies and we join his escape, battle against the goons, Maleficent, forest of thorns and finally the flame spewing dragon, he conquers and heads off to find Aurora. This has all the build and momentum and payoff needed. It’s simple, It’s familiar and classic but invites the latest in technology to create the illusions. It’s has the music and styling — Imagine being convincingly thrust into Eyvind Earle’s world! Would be a hit with all ages. Add some rollercoaster thrills to put it over the top.
I’m less excited about the Villains expansion than anyone I know, but I still think it will be really good for the park. (I don’t think “Villains” is a theme on par with Frontierland/Tomorrowland/Adventureland, but I guess that ship sailed with SW:GE at DL.). And it is exciting if it’s getting plussed rather than cut. Imagining New Fantasyland without SDMT is a bleak thought exercise, so improvements min-project have happened before.
I have said Disney should have made Villians Land a 5th gate more directed at families with teens and young adults. Go bigger, faster and pull that crowd from Universal. Yes families would be welcome but with more thrill rides and a darker look it fill a different void.
Villains as a 5th gate is a bad idea for the same reason Star Wars or Marvel is: you’ve eliminated the audience that isn’t interested or doesn’t care about those things.
Disney learned that lesson from Animal Kingdom, and is still digging out. And that’s a much more open-ended concept than villains or super heroes.
A 5th park isn’t going to happen, regardless, but it’s DOA if the pitch is attracting only a subset of the current audience. This arguably does the opposite, expanding the appeal of the Magic Kingdom to new demos (as you’ve correctly identified!). It’ll make the most popular park even more popular, with a wider audience.
As much as I’d love to see a 5th gate, and I can think of several different themes for one, Disney doesn’t need it right now.
First they need more stuff in the Parks they have.
Second, Disney will not make much more with five gates than it does with four.
Not counting the two water parks, Disney Springs or various activities that take place around the resorts, the four Parks already take up 5 vacation days because MK is best done twice.
So you have to be staying 6 or more days to even consider covering 5 gates.
Tom would know better but I suspect the average long stay is no more than 7 full days, coming in on Sat leaving on the Sun eight days later.
I think most folks would spend a day at the resort to relax a little. Maybe a run to DS. Even buying a 7 day ticket the 4 parks provide plenty to fill that week.
If there were a 5th gate yeah they’d have somewhere else to go but folks are probably buying the same amount of ticket days for their vacation whether it’s 4 or 5 parks. Disney would not make enough extra to justify the enormous costs of another brand new land.
Perhaps in 25 years from now…..
As to your first two questions, I think both are true.
Villains has such great potential. D’Amaro knows and wants that. I’m sure he’s encouraged all involved to go nuts.
Cost cutting and value engineering will happen with any project regardless of the budget. That doesn’t mean something great has to be chopped down to good. It can be that something great remains great at a better price.
I have faith in JD.