WDW News & Rumors: Robot PhotoPass, RnRC Replacement, No New Monorails?
It’s time for another round-up of the latest Walt Disney World news and rumors. This time, we have the latest on the replacement monorail saga, automated PhotoPass ‘robots’ replacing human photographers, and the potential of a re-themed Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster at Disney’s Hollywood Studios.
Let’s start with the ongoing saga of the Walt Disney World monorail system. We’ve passed the 25th anniversary of the Mark VI monorails, which as the in-cabin narration will remind you, were ‘modernized’ in 1991. You don’t need us to tell you that the current fleet is aging, breaks down with increased regularity, and has been plagued by a series of news-worthy incidents.
To be honest, we think some of these “news-worthy” incidents have been a bit overblown for dramatic effect and to rile fans who are already (rightfully) agitated that a new fleet wasn’t ordered almost a decade ago after a monorail pilot died when two monorails collided. We also haven’t gotten stuck in a while nor have we had to pop out the windows for ventilation while awaiting the monorail tow vehicle, so perhaps we’re not as up in arms as other fans about the state of Walt Disney World’s monorails…
The latest development in the rumors of new monorails coming to Walt Disney World. It appears that a researcher at WDWNT has combed through Bombardier’s corporate accounting, and found nothing to indicate that Disney has placed an order. This is significant because Bombardier is the most likely candidate to manufacture a modernized fleet of monorails, and if they aren’t doing it, there’s a good chance it isn’t happening.
This comes a few months after rumors leaked that Disney had placed an order with Bombardier for a new fleet of monorails. Despite Disney and Bombardier both (repeatedly) denying this rumor, it persisted. Several different sources corroborated it, as did Disney Legend Bob Gurr, known for designing over 100 designs ride vehicles–including both the Disneyland and Walt Disney World Monorails, among other things. Prior to this latest development, we even received independent confirmation from a reputable source that new monorails are on the way.
So…what happened? That’s anyone’s guess. While corporate PR statements are one thing, and “no plans at this time” can be a convenient way of skirting an official confirmation, Bombardier’s legally-mandated accounting requirements are another matter entirely.
As for other manufacturers of Imagineering doing this in-house, that’s unlikely. This is the type of thing that requires specialized production capabilities (it always seems to surprise people that Imagineering outsources quite a bit, but that’s the nature of sophisticated technology and manufacturing), and Bombardier is one of the few companies capable of that.
Bombardier is not the only candidate, just the most likely, so perhaps Disney did place the order with another company? (Hitachi manufactured the Disney Resort Line in Tokyo–pictured below with its Duffy & Friends ‘fur’ overlay.)
We think the more plausible scenario is that Disney is still in tentative negotiations with Bombardier, and the order is not yet finalized and officially on the books. Accounting requirements aren’t triggered until a contract is in place, and if Disney is still negotiating specifics, that would explain the lack of anything being officially reported despite the flurry of rumors.
The bad news in this scenario is that it means we are still several years away from new monorails coming to Walt Disney World. In fact, we wouldn’t bank on anything in the next 5 years.
At some point, if it hasn’t happened already, Disney’s legal department will step in and demand that the monorails either be replaced and the system (again) modernized, or they stop operating. There have been past safety incidents and the monorails break down with regularity, and should another fatality or serious injury occur, that all provides serious fodder for negligence claims, among other causes of action.
Many Disney fans have speculated that the monorails ceasing to run is exactly what management wants. I’ve yet to hear a compelling rationale given for this, and once you get past the operational expenses, I don’t think it’s all that plausible of speculation. Yes, the monorails cost money to operate and maintain, and a new fleet will easily cost north of $100 million.
However, the monorails are one of the main selling points of Deluxe Resorts near Magic Kingdom, and without them, the price ceiling on those rooms is not nearly as high. While the argument can be made that the stratospheric pricing of all Deluxes is not in line with the offered amenities, that differential is most pronounced at these monorail results–and that’d be even more so without the monorail, which is a significant draw. Even with a perceived strong economy and operational monorail system, the occupancy rate at these resorts is nowhere near 100%.
Room rates at the Polynesian, Grand Floridian, and Contemporary are likely part of the reason a thorough overhaul has yet to occur. With each of the recent resort overhauls, refurbishments, and DVC expansions at these resorts, there have been issues. Guest satisfaction and occupancy have taken hits, as did the frequency of guest recovery efforts. All of this has had a cost, and so too would significant scheduled monorail downtime.
The current monorail system cannot operate indefinitely, though, so something has to give. I think there’s a decent chance we will hear something official by next summer’s D23 Expo. Given that Disney will be working with outside parties that are mandated to publicly-disclose their pricey contracts, this seems like something Disney would want to get in front of with an official announcement.
In other “no plans at this time” news, the New York Times recently did an interesting piece on Disney’s spending on parks that included a reference to Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster being replaced. Shortly after the article was published, fans picked up on that tidbit and Disney swiftly issued a denial. The article and its graphic of DHS was then “corrected.”
This is not the first, second, or even third time there has been credible discussion (I won’t call this a ‘rumor’ because that’s not exactly what it is) of Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster receiving a face lift. The thing about this NYT story is that it was undoubtedly done with the cooperation of Disney. Not only does it read like that, but the author relays information to which only internal sources would be privy.
It very well could’ve been a mistake by the NYT reporter, confusing details about what’s happening in Paris for what’s happening in Florida. I find that hard to believe, as the author (Brooks Barnes) is on the Disney theme parks ‘beat’ and is generally fairly accurate with this type of thing. He’s not the same type of mainstream reporter who writes about “the Star Wars theme park coming to Orlando” or otherwise bungles parks info.
Just as likely as author error, it could’ve been a matter of the NYT reporter getting background from someone at Disney who was unaware a public announcement had yet to be made about Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster, or slipped in sharing that tidbit. Disney is a huge company, and this wouldn’t be the first, second, or even third time one hand didn’t know what the other was doing.
Regardless of the veracity of this particular piece of reporting, if I were a betting man, I’d bet heavily against Aerosmith having a roller coaster in Disney’s Hollywood Studios a decade from now.
Next up, we have the latest controversy du jour, which is the rumor and subsequent confirmation by Walt Disney World that human PhotoPass photographers will be replaced by automated cameras at 9 meet & greet locations. Okay, these green boxes currently being tested are not exactly robots, but when I think about this I like to envision a Skynet scenario, with the machines eventually becoming sentient and overthrowing Main Street.
A lot of Disney fans are upset about this, and that’s understandable. There’s certain ‘human element’ to photography (or so I’m told), and we’ve witnessed PhotoPass photographers work some magic with uncomfortable children. There’s also the disconcerting angle here that the jobs of photographers are being lost to automation, something that’s a relatively unique story.
On the other hand, and what’s being under-reported here is that these ‘green box’ cameras use some fancy technology to give guests more photos from which to select. The camera boxes will use artificial intelligence software to capture posed and candid shots of guests, and although Disney hasn’t released specifics of the technology being used here, this type of tech has sky-high potential.
Knowing the theoretical capabilities of this technology–and the limited creative freedom human PhotoPass photographers are afforded in constrained environments like these particular meet & greets–I’m a lot less bothered by this test. I also think there’s only so many human photographers that can be replaced (we’re not going to Push reborn as a photographer, rolling up and down Main Street), and character attendants will still be necessary, so this should be at least slightly less problematic than the outrage meter would suggest.
I also find it a bit interesting that this is where people draw the line with automation. Mobile ordering, online check-in, and a variety of other features that are now taken for granted in My Disney Experience are also forms of automation, and these things have been widely lauded. Those forms of automation are just so ubiquitous in the real world that we take for granted that their existence is at least in part driven by a desire of companies to cut labor costs.
It would seem that where Walt Disney World guests draw the line with automation is less about job-loss and more about their personal experience. This would explain why mobile ordering and everything else is given a pass–those things generally improve or at least expedite the guest experience. I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion quite yet that the same won’t be true with the robot PhotoPass photographers at these nine locations.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What do you think of these news & rumors? Are you cautiously optimistic about a new monorail fleet at Walt Disney World, or do you think it’ll never happen? What about Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster being replaced…think that was an author error, or someone at Disney spilling the beans prematurely? Any thoughts on the ‘robot’ PhotoPass photographers? Any questions about anything else? We love hearing from readers–even when you disagree with us–so please share any other thoughts or questions you have in the comments!
For me the difference between breaking out automated PhotoPass photographers and other automation (online check in, mobile ordering, etc.) is that it “feels” more concrete. I can calculate fairly easily that X number of automated photographers means X times 4 (or whatever it is) human photographers lose their jobs. This is not the case with mobile ordering or online check in. Those workers are still needed, and I would very surprised if all (or even most) ordering became mobile and all (or most) check in was online. People still have the option of human interaction, and based on the quick service lines, it seems the vast majority are still choosing that route. There is no human option with the automated photographers, and it would not surprise me at all if almost all human PhotoPass photographers get replaced assuming the rollout goes well.
I’m truly curious as to why they’ve chosen to trial the “robot PhotoPass” as you called it at the meet & greets. In my experience as a family with small kids, those are the ones where having the photographer move around and getting shots from different angles really makes a difference. I would’ve thought having them in a static location (like I think they do at some props at Universal Studios?) where you could basically just stand on a mark and pose would be a better use of the technology.
I remember one of the the things that stuck out to me about the magic kingdom monorails, was the distinct monkey smell. That is to say, the aroma on the monorails reminds me of the primate inclosure at my local zoo. Not to worry, the smell is not due to uncleanliness, it’s just a musk excreted by the apes. So there is that.
Thanks Tom! I love a good rumor roundup 🙂 I’m from Montreal and when I heard Bombardier was cutting 3000 Canadian jobs (and 2000 overseas), I was thinking “Hey! What about that big Monorail order for Disney?”. Whatever happens, I’d be elated if they look like (and run as efficiently as) the Tokyo Disney Resort Monorails!
Even brand new Walt Disney World monorails wouldn’t look and run as efficiently as TDR’s, unfortunately. Definitely better than what we have in Florida right now, though!
I think the monorail is so evidently iconic (to non-Disney enthusiasts, not just the geeks who follow blogs like this one) that any idea of it disappearing long term would be inconceivable. The monorail beams would be a permanent reminder of what had gone, removing them would cost as much as the new monorails (I assume), and Disney would never allow defunct infrastructure to sit around like that, it would be like the DL peoplemover losing its vehicles and… oh.
What’s more interesting to me is that, despite the Paris version being the better ride (not pre-show/land etc…), its wait time is regularly under 30 minutes (in the peak – much less off peak!) vs DHS’s near-constant 60+ minutes. This apples-to-apples comparison is a real reminder of just how sad a state DHS is in, and in DHS’s case I think Disney would be making a mistake by spending resources changing the theme.
Agreed about the iconic nature of the monorail.
Also agreed on the weird difference in wait times. I think location probably plays a role at WDSP, as does the lower overall attendance there. With that said, even though WDSP is a lousy theme park, it does have a pretty solid collection of attractions–better than DHS at the moment!
The monorail is one of the key selling points to the resorts that are on it. If I were staying at any of those resorts, I would be highly upset without it. It would be a very bad financial choice. The boat traffic could not keep up and no way would I want to take a bus to MK while paying thousands to be near it. Time is worth $ on vacation, and I don’t like to waste my time doing anything else than what I want to do, especially if thousands were spent to obtain that option of transportation. ( I would think that whatever deal they have with Dooney and Bourke would be enough to finance this alone! Bwahahaha….)
Why hang guests in a gondola with no ac in the heat and lightening capital of the world??!! Keeping my arms and legs inside a cool enclosed smooth riding monorail was one of my favorite things.
I wouldn’t call it the lightening capital, more like the fattening capital with all the food we eat there! I doubt all the walking burns those off. But there is a lot of lightning in FL. Although this isn’t an issue with enclosed cabs as the skin effect will keep the charge on the outside of the cabin.
There’s not going to be AC in the gondolas?! I didn’t know that. Insane!
Agree with Marc. That’s crazy. Why not just have guests dress up in the Mickey costume, they would die from the heat faster.
I’m wait and see with the artificial intelligence photographeres.
My biggest gripe with current photopass is when they simply don’t take enough photos – especially with the impromptu interactions. I look at the pictures taken after an extended interaction and only find a pictures and I wonder “Are they trying to save hard drive space or something.” Will the AI photos be better? I’m hopeful but skeptical.
The posed pictures will be the most at risk. Posing for a photo is usually a social interaction, so I am curious how this will be handled.
Who knows, maybe it will be better and not just a way for Disney to save $0.05 per photo.
My concern with the photopass automation is what happens when people like myself want several photos? For instance, I purchase the memory maker and I go into the town hall with my mom, my sister and my nieces. We walk up to see Mickey Mouse…we want a group photo, then we want several other photos…my sister and my nieces together, my mom by herself, me by myself, my sister by herself, me and my nieces, me and my sister, me and my mom, my mom and her grand kids, my mom and my sister and finally individual shots of each of my nieces. How will automation work for this? This would be 12 pictures of just us…with human photographers there wasn’t an issue. For someone like me who saves and saves to go…I will want to get lots of memories (pictures) because it could be years before we all could go back. Finally, why would you purchase the memory maker if you can’t get the photos you want? I am all for technology, but somethings are better left unchanged…unless the person at these automation places has control to allow for several photos.
If I remember the rumor correct, the cameras will be rolling video, actually, so you can capture any moment during you interaction that you want.
Re: Rockin Rollercoaster. Back in early September, the character warehouses got flooded with Aerosmith Rn’RC merchandise. When we were there in late September, the merchandise in the gift shop was mostly generic “Rock and Roller Coaster”. There were still some things that had Aerosmith on them (like the big top hat) but you really had to look for it.
It definitely had a feel that the “featuring Aerosmith” on the sign outside was going to be removed.
Even if it does happen (which would require a new pre-show and soundtracks), it will always be “Rock and Rollercoaster featuring Aerosmith” to me.
They are building a sky ride with multiple stops about the different resorts I think perhaps this is going to replace the monorail
The Skyliner gondolas will be servicing completely different hotels from the monorail.
Rumors (from above posts) are that the gondolas will have no A/C? If that’s true, that’s insane.
Disney has confirmed the gondolas won’t have air-conditioning, but even before that it was widely expected. This line of Doppelmayr gondolas, which operates in subtropical climates around the world, doesn’t have A/C.
For those who don’t buy memory maker, part of the nice thing about the photographers is being able to ask them to take a picture with your own camera. You can’t really do that with a photo box. For annual passholders who have memory maker included in their ticket price, it wouldn’t matter. But for someone who scrimps and saves for years to afford a once-in-a-lifetime vacation and can’t afford the extra frills, it might make a big difference, depending on where these stations will be. If they are the iconic, not to be missed pictures like in front of the castle, I can understand guests being upset that in order to get that picture, they would HAVE to buy memory maker or purchase those pictures separately.
This is a really good point. I imagine this is probably the biggest negative impact for guests — and maybe a large motivator for Disney, since it forces people to pay for Memory Maker if there’s no option of using their own camera for character pictures.
The photo boxes will only replace photographers at Meet & Greets, where character attendants will still be available to snap a pic for you. In my (limited) experience at M&Gs, it was the attendant and not the photographer, who took my smartphone. Hope that helps!
The difference between Ohotopass photographers being replaced and mobile order is that time after time places outside the theme park that has started offering mobile ordering have proven that there has been enough of an increase in bsuiness that more jobs get added. This is also proving true within the theme parks. Replacing photopass photographers at these locations remove those positions. Now if it frees these photographers up to add additional opportunities throughout the parks where automation can’t be used, then I take no issue with it, but if they are doing it to lower costs by cutting number of hours going to photopass photographers, then I take issue with it.
Do we know the 9 locations for the picture-bots? I’d say half of our photopass experiences have been good, exactly what you’d expect. Then 25% have been awful in photography skill and in basic social skills, but the final 25% are the ones that have given us our very favorite photos, that knew how to make the process fun and capture the best moments possible. While it’ll be great to have less of the negative 25%, I hope it’s not at the expense of the amazing top 25%…
You mentioned Push (which I never got to see) and have a picture of the Muppets Mobile Lab (which I have also never managed to see). Kind of a downer article for me in that regard (even if it had nothing to do with the substance of the artice)!
As for the photo boxes, I’ll take a wait-and-see approach. As most people who are against this have said: the “candid” shots are usually better than a posed photo. I hope the boxes can do a good job with this. For us, this was particularly true when my daughter was young. Even with my own camera, my daughter would run in to greet the princess/Mickey/etc. and the photopass photog was already positioned to grab photos (most of the time, at least) while I was trailing and would only get my daughter’s back.
I’m on the fence about whether PhotoPass photographers capture “all” the candid photos. I had a really great interaction with Olaf this trip and the PhotoPass photographer stood around for a few minutes while Olaf and I were interacting and then only snapped 3 posed photos at the end of all that. I was disappointed that he didn’t capture all the fun that preceded the posed photos. I’ve had other PhotoPass photographers grab the candids that you reference (going in for the hug) and some of those are my favorite photos. Prior to this Olaf experience I probably would’ve been firmly in the “outraged” camp but now I’d rather have a camera that was motion-activated or something taking photos the whole time I’m with a character so I could choose which to keep.
Christine – I agree it’s hit-or-miss and it depends very much on the photopass photographer. Also, sometimes the photographer is still finishing up with the previous group (scanning MB, etc.) and doesn’t have the time to capture the candid shots.
That’s why I’ve always taken my camera, even when we had Memorymaker. I figured 2 cameras were better than 1.
Well, having had the monorail in front of us (on the resort loop), break down, repeatedly, leaving the Magic Kingdom after Extra Magic Hours was over in early June, 2018, with it taking over 1 and 1/2 hours to reach the TTC, needless to say, I’m a big advocate of replacing the monorails, the sooner the better. I think your reasoning is sound; the preliminary talks and proposals could go on for an extended period of time.
However, I’m shocked that they haven’t set this up by now. More specifically, WDW is going to deliberately putting a huge magnifying glass on itself with the upcoming 50th anniversary in 2021. Pictures of monorails with glitches like open doors and worse, happening before the world press corps is not what is called wise corporate planning. Wise corporate planning would have it set that there was a brand new, yet broken in, monorail fleet for the 50th anniversary. With the time frame left, 25 months until 2021, 35 months to October 1, 2021, the odds of a finalized contract and delivery of a complete monorail fleet in that time frame seems low, though I admit to not knowing a thing about how long it would take to build a monorail vehicle, or how many can be built at one time, though a Wikipedia article shows orders placed from Brazil and Saudi Arabia, with both systems still in the delivery stage as of 2015. However, what’s needed for a city can be vastly more than for WDW: Bombardier’s website states about a contract with Bangkok, Thailand for a delivery 72 trains each of 4 cars. Bombardier’s INNOVIA monorail 300 site also claims fast construction, so….?
This is what I find interesting about it, too. I know they are dropping a good chunk ‘o change on improvements leading up to the anniversary, but it seems like a (possibly poor) oversight not to include updated monorails. I can’t imagine having the time to do it now though.
admittedly i hadn’t ridden RNRC for a little over a decade, but i was shocked by how dated (and bumpy!) the trip was last month. it was also deserted – we probably could have ridden two or three times in a row if we hadn’t been jostled so badly on the first one. would love to see something new in that space, though i wouldn’t put it past disney to steal more park real estate at DHS for Star Wars stuff – something i definitely don’t want.
Are you on crack? RRC is not and never has been bumpy. We rode it last month and it was awesome as always. Best ride at the Studios by far, although Slinky is pretty awesome. They’d better not change it.
We rode last week and completely agree that it wasn’t bumpy and an amazing ride!
A regular Coke in the Magic Kingdom is $4.29. That’s obnoxious! We were really disappointed in this price increase. (Nov. 2018)
I know. At least if it were Pepsi it would ne a good product for the money.
Yuck! No, I disagree!
Seems to me disney world sometimes does things a$$ backward. Instead of making sure their big money resorts are taken care of and making the big money spenders happy, they put a gondola up for a moderate resort and two values, don’t get me wrong I am looking forward to this as much as anyone. But what good does that do if nobody spends the big money at their best resorts anymore. The one time I stayed at a deluxe the nicest thing wasn’t the room, you have those elsewhere almost as nice like at Caribbean beach. It wasn’t the restaurant we can travel there and save money on our trip. It wasn’t the pool cbr also has a great one of those. The thing I enjoyed the most was being next to the great ceremonial house and jumping on a monorail to the magic kingdom and epcot and back without having to mess with the busses. That’s the one thing the high priced resorts have that makes them worth the money to me at least. If they keep getting worse and they have to fix them all the time it’s going to hurt their bottom end more than anything. The monorails in the picture looked spectacular I’d reserve a stay at one of those resorts just to enjoy that perk itself. Sorry for rambling just my two cents
Three things, if it makes you feel any “better”…
1) Expect pricing at the Skyliner resorts to spike come 2020. That’s one of Disney’s goals in adding them.
2) The Skyliners were pretty much done of necessity, as resort infrastructure can’t handle more and more buses, especially at peak times.
3) Tokyo Disney Resort’s monorails are accessible from the third party hotels, such as the Sheraton and Hilton, all of which regularly cost in the range of $150/night…which is less than the cost of even a WDW Skyliner resort in the future, let alone a WDW monorail resort! 😉
Welcome to socialism! 🙂
Re: Rockin Rollercoaster…looks like maybe the reporter just made a mistake? They published a retraction about the update, “An earlier version of a map with this article misstated the Walt Disney Company’s plans for the Rock ‘n’ Roller Coaster at its Hollywood Studios park. The company has no current plans to upgrade the ride.”
That’s a pretty standard Disney denial, and one we’ve heard dozens of times before the same rumor they denied was confirmed. If the NYT wants to maintain access for pieces like this, it behooves them to print such a correction (especially if Disney is going to deny it, anyway).
In other words, I put zero stock in that correction. Maybe the reporter did get it wrong, but I think that’s 50/50, at best.