2022 D23 Expo Parks Panel Post Mortem: Awesome or Awful Disney World News?
Judging by reader reactions, I was the only person here who was not totally disappointed by what was announced for Walt Disney World during the parks panel at the D23 Expo.
In fairness, my expectations were super low. My pre-Expo predictions for Walt Disney World consisted of entertainment that we already know is returning, new concept art for the Giant EPCOT Dirt Pit, Tiana’s Bayou Adventure details, an opening date for TRON Lightcycle Run, and a roller coaster replacing Dino-Rama. The last one would’ve been the biggest announcement, and even that I admitted “doesn’t do a ton for me” because Animal Kingdom has a more urgent need for family-friendly attractions.
So what Walt Disney World actually got, for the most part, exceeded my expectations. The one thing I will readily admit: the parks presentation was weird. Really weird. It defied expectations in some odd ways, and contained both good and bad surprises.
During his ~90 minute “A Boundless Future: Disney Parks, Experiences and Products” presentation, Disney Parks, Experiences and Consumer Products Chairman Josh D’Amaro bounced from topic to topic, covering a lot of ground. Much more than I expected, in fact.
The biggest surprise for me is how much was glossed over in the near-term at Walt Disney World.
Fantasmic returning to Disney’s Hollywood Studios was not mentioned. We know this is happening in the next 6-8 weeks, as Walt Disney World has confirmed rehearsals are underway. This time, there have not been any delays that would detail these plans. Fantasmic will be back before November 2022.
Few new details were provided for the EPCOT overhaul. We know the concept art for the area behind Dreamers Point is incomplete, because Imagineering has said there are still some “surprises” in store for the plans. (Unless they meant Te Fiti?)
This is just a partial list of what seems like obvious slam-dunks for more details at the D23 Expo. Other projects underway include the Grand Floridian reimagining, BoardWalk reimagining, Polynesian Village Resort DVC Tower, Roundup Rodeo BBQ Restaurant in Toy Story Land, new restaurants being developed for Disney Springs, and probably more that I’m forgetting.
All of this is still happening. Details being omitted from the D23 Expo does not change that.
Then there are the question marks about which fans were understandably hoping to learn more. This list includes a lot at EPCOT: Cherry Tree Lane, Play Pavilion, DuckTales game, and Spaceship Earth reimagining. This caught me by surprise, too. I expected to hear announcements for two of these projects. (Others are probably permanently shelved.)
I’ve also heard from many Walt Disney World planners who were disappointed that the Disney Dining Plan’s return was not announced. Even if that were imminent, it would not have been revealed at the D23 Expo. It’s just not the kind of announcement made at a blockbuster presentation in Southern California. There are actually a couple reasons for that, one being the obvious matter of location.
The other is the message it sends. One thing we’ve touched upon elsewhere is the blurring of the lines in corporate communications. It used to be the case that analysts and investors listened to quarterly earnings calls and conference presentations, and events like the D23 Expo were for the fans.
Now, fans listen to everything for clues about what the future holds. Whether that be a D23 event or Bank of America roundtable with corporate CFOs does not matter. It’s all consumed and covered online. If that infamous “waistlines” comment were made a decade ago, you would’ve never known about it. Instead, you know exactly what I’m talking about via a one-word reference.
Turnabout is fair play, and investors are doing the same. CNBC and Bloomberg extensively covered the 2022 D23 Expo, and they probably weren’t the only ones in the financial press. They do so to see what can be gleaned about the company’s outlook for its parks (and other divisions) because what’s said on corporate earnings calls can differ from what’s actually being done.
Announcing the return of something like the Disney Dining Plan could be a reg flag for investors. It could signal that pent-up demand is starting to fizzle out and Disney needs to do something to lure visitors or sustain its per guest spending numbers.
It should go without saying, but what investors want to hear and what fans want to hear often doesn’t align. So we get some stuff for the geeks, like a Figment meet & greet at EPCOT and Hatbox Ghost coming to Haunted Mansion (two announcements nobody saw coming, I might add). We also hear about Cotino and other corporate “activations” about which no one cares. In short, it’s a presentation aimed at pleasing two dissimilar audiences.
There’s a colossal silver lining in this, though. Sometimes, what investors and fans want to hear does overlap.
In our pre-Expo predictions, one wildcard we presented was the resiliency of the company’s Florida theme parks. Walt Disney World continues to outperform, and investors have begun to take notice of its success. This coupled with Wall Street souring on streaming (at least a bit) means Disney may finally start to bet bigger on its theme park business. Given that, a big slate of announcements at the 2022 D23 Expo was a possibility.
From my perspective, that’s almost certainly why we saw the early expansion plans for Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom. A realization by the company that Wall Street is increasingly skeptical of the streaming business, but all-in on theme parks. Given that this is a relatively recent development, the company hasn’t had a chance to finalize plans. Still, they want us–and more importantly to them, Wall Street–to know that big investments are on the horizon.
Most Walt Disney World fans have viewed these Animal and Magic Kingdom expansion plans with a lot of skepticism, pessimism, and downright dismissiveness. As I’ve written elsewhere, I do not blame you. Current leadership has not exactly done right by Walt Disney World fans in the last few years. It’s been a rough era, and this feels at odds with that. It’s too big and, like other announcements, won’t happen.
Many fans feel this way, calling the ‘blue sky’ portion of the presentation smoke and mirrors or an attempt to distract from Epic Universe. Again, totally understandable. You have no reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. Especially given how many projects from the 2017 and 2019 D23 Expos have not come to fruition.
However, consider the audiences (plural) for this presentation. If Josh D’Amaro simply wanted to let Imagineers share their creativity, there were a dozen other small-scale panels over the course of the weekend where that could’ve been accomplished. Over the last decade, about half of the panels I’ve attended at the Expo have been about blue sky plans and what could’ve been (or what was). There was absolutely no reason for this to be part of the flagship parks presentation if there aren’t actual plans to expand Animal and Magic Kingdoms.
Moreover, what, exactly, does “distracting” from Epic Universe actually accomplish? Okay, Disney took attention away from Universal’s new park for one weekend a few years ahead of its opening. Now what? The presentation will not impact future bookings or business for Epic Universe, nor will it do anything for Disney. To the contrary, it’ll hurt the company’s credibility with both fans and investors if they continue announcing things but not building them.
This notion of messaging to two audiences, Wall Street and fans, should also dispense with the notion that Disney was scrambling to fill time or threw that ‘blue sky’ segment in at the last minute. This was not simply Josh D’Amaro riffing and randomly bringing Chris Beatty and Jennifer Lee to the stage.
These presentations are meticulously scripted and carefully crafted. What’s included and excluded is all purposeful. If I had to guess, this also explains why more time wasn’t spend on projects that were previously ‘paused indefinitely.’ The company doesn’t want to draw too much attention to past plans that have been delayed or shelved.
There is no doubt a lot of internal corporate politics at play, and debate about what gets revealed where, when, and by whom. That would explain why the biggest concrete announcement of the entire presentation–the Marvel Multiverse ‘King Thanos’ attraction–was first teased by CEO Bob Chapek during the Disney Legends presentation.
I also don’t doubt that Josh D’Amaro pushed for a presentation that effectively closed out the last chapter of parks & resorts under Chapek, and wanted to present forward-looking news that allowed him to make his own mark on the parks. Taking all of this into account, the D23 parks presentation makes a lot more sense and, I’d argue, offers more reason for optimism.
In the near-term, we got news of a lot more entertainment on the horizon for both coasts. None of this is any surprise for Disneyland, where new nighttime spectaculars are the rule rather than the exception. The story is very different at Walt Disney World.
Happily Ever After returning isn’t a huge surprise. We’ve said for the last year-plus that this would come down to guest satisfaction. Enhancing it will cost money, so this is “not nothing,” but fireworks shows in the castle parks are cheaper to change. It’s good news, but not a surprise and also not huge.
However, if you told me last September that Harmonious would be retired and replaced less than 2 years after its debut, I never would’ve believed you. This is even after seeing the hideous water tacos and Stargate in World Showcase Lagoon. That is simply not how Walt Disney World does things with entertainment investments. I thought we’d be stuck with those suckers for at least a decade.
Alone, this announcement reflects a meaningful change in thinking and willingness to be more nimble and responsive to guests. Even if you don’t care about nighttime spectaculars or thought Harmonious was okay, this is an important philosophical change for the Florida parks. It’s a big win.
With that said, if we’re going to take all of the announcements or ‘reveals’ at face value and view the investment they entail optimistically, it’s only fair to look at the downsides or negatives.
It’s fair to say that Coco, Moana, Encanto, Villains, and Zootopia are interesting thematic choices for Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom. There are arguably better locations for just about all of this, and even swapping some of the IP choices between the two kingdom parks could make sense.
It’s too bad there wasn’t some 10-year master plan with all of these ideas decided upon at once, rather than piecemeal.
Assuming all of these same IPs “need” to come to the parks, I feel like the best idea of all probably would’ve been Moana taking over Splash Mountain, Tiana getting a brand new ride in a New Orleans Square behind Big Thunder, a larger South America area (including Encanto) in Animal Kingdom, something else entirely at EPCOT behind Spaceship Earth, and Zootopia in Disney’s Hollywood Studios. Villains are malleable and could fit in DHS or beyond Big Thunder; Coco would likewise work in a few locations.
Then there’s the complaint about the IP-centric nature of the announcements. If you haven’t come to terms with this by now, there’s nothing I can write that’s going to change that. I will say that I agree with you in principle–most of my favorite attractions are non-IP–but this has been the direction of the domestic parks since Expedition Everest in 2006. There’s no reason to believe that’s going to change anytime soon, and holding out hope is about as foolish as continuing to think that Horizons might come back.
I can also understand Disney’s position as it attempts to meet (regular) guest expectations and add successful characters and films from the last decade. Walt Disney Animation Studios is in the midst of another renaissance, and visitors expect to see those movies in the parks. (Fewer IP attractions made sense during a time when Disney wasn’t consistently churning out hit movies, and when other theme parks couldn’t compete on non-IP attractions.)
We don’t have children, but even I know what a cultural phenomenon Encanto has been. I know this because there’s Nielsen streaming data showing the billions of minutes it racked atop while atop the streaming charts for months after its release. My surprise is not that Disney is betting big on these newer properties, it’s that they haven’t already. These are new classics for a generation, and fans who think otherwise are probably just biased towards the movies they grew up with.
This brings me to the biggest negative surprise during the parks presentation, and an area of ongoing disappointment: everything is taking too long.
I get why the plans for Animal Kingdom and Magic Kingdom are so vague and laden with caveats. If the company has recently (within the last 6 months) pivoted to parks, it’s unsurprising that nothing has been greenlit and is ready to showcase in detail. It also makes sense not to overpromise and underdeliver–just look at the last couple of Expos for evidence as to why.
However, this is a symptom of a larger problem with Disney. The company is bloated and everything is done at a glacial pace. It’s one thing for large scale development to be slow and methodical, but nothing Disney does is nimble. It’s the antithesis of a lean and hungry organization. (When I discuss this with Disney employees, I’m told that I “just don’t understand how things work.” But in reality, I think they don’t understand how things can and do work elsewhere, because they’re mired in corporate bureaucracy.)
You will never convince me that it’s acceptable Walt Disney World still does not have actual Encanto entertainment or Bruno and Mirabel meet & greets. Or the EPCOT overhaul needed to be this drawn out. That delaying TRON Lightcycle Run until 2023 is the right move. There’s no good reason Figment’s meet & greet needs to debut by late 2023 instead of on October 1 for EPCOT’s 40th Anniversary. This is to say nothing of the lethargic phased reopening that is still underway two years later. The list goes on and on.
In fairness to Disney, there are practical realities and impediments to fast-tracking all of this. There are also solutions for every problem. It would be nice to see Disney be hungry and aggressive, instead of making excuses. If Josh D’Amaro really wants to make an impact, he could as the guy who gets stuff done at Walt Disney World. Because they might not have any sense of urgency, but Universal sure does.
Maybe that’s the reason some of you are unenthused about the Animal and Magic Kingdom expansion proposals. Even if they are 100% real and were greenlit tomorrow (and Magic Kingdom’s definitely will not be), they wouldn’t open until at least late 2025 or 2026. That’s a long time from now, and we’ve already learned once how economic uncertainty can derail plans.
Ultimately, those are my rambling thoughts with regard to the parks presentation and what was shown for Walt Disney World. For me, it’s a mixed bag–but mostly positive. The stuff that frustrates me is almost all in the near-term, with the company slow-rolling things that simply do not need to be delayed. I also would’ve liked to hear more about known projects, but their absence doesn’t change the fact that they’re happening.
Ironically enough, where I’m most optimistic is where so many of you seem to be pessimistic. Replacing Dino-Rama is good. Expanding Magic Kingdom is great. Setting aside specifics or where each IP goes, this is very positive news. These are two big signals that the company doesn’t now view Walt Disney World as a “mature business” following its recent CapEx cycle. That plus upgrades to current projects (Te Fiti), enhancements to existing attractions (Hatbox Ghost), and a willingness to replace nighttime spectaculars (Enchantment and Harmonious) leaves me feeling pretty good about the future of Walt Disney World.
None of this is a 5th gate or the stuff of my wildest dreams and imagination, but if you went into this D23 Expo–after seeing everything Disney has done in the last two years–expecting a 5th gate or anything hugely ambitious, you’re more foolish than me and my optimistic outlook! 😉
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What are your reactions to the various announcements for Walt Disney World at the 2022 D23 Expo? What has you most and least excited? Anything you’re hoping does not end up coming to fruition? Do you agree or disagree with our assessments? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
I enjoyed the D23 presentation. I love seeing blue sky stuff. I truly believe that we will see an expansion beyond Thunder Mountain someday, and that excites me. The DAK expansion will more than likely come sooner than later and I can’t wait to see what that’s about. Realistically if you think about chunks of time and when you’d see these things just look no further than milestone anniversaries to formulate guesses. MK will be 60 in 10 years, and with waiting on a project to be greenlit and built I’ll put my guess at that for MK. DAK will be 30 in 2028, so I could totally see that happening for it’s expansion. match that up with D23 conventions every two years and you can have a good roadmap. I know these sound far away, but corporations move slow and startegically. Also appreciate your coverage Tom is fun to follow this stuff. As I said I had no issue with the overall presentation outside of the TRON opening timeframe!
I’ll add my thanks for your prolific last several days, Tom! My reaction to all the D23 announcements is a big ol’ “TBD” because if most of the bigger ideas come to fruition someday down the road we may look back and say: “Wow, this was the first we ever heard of that now-legendary area/attraction” (e.g., Villains Land). But we also might laugh about all the blue sky visions that were just mirages.
The one thing that is getting at me is the AK future vision that was teased. Some commenters dissecting the concept art are convinced any new themed areas and attractions (Zootopia, Moana, etc.) would simply replace Dinoland and I’m inclined to agree. But that’s not really a net expansion, just a retrofit, and one that could damage to the park’s cohesive theme/vision without really taking AK to the whole new level it deserves. So are they ever going to look at building on the huge open parcel to the NE of the park bordering Rafiki’s Planet Watch and Maharaja Jungle Trek? This feels like the perfect area for a massive South America Land (or an “Americas” Land to open more possibilities) that could include so many awesome animals AND so much compelling IP. Let’s save the dinosaurs and build there instead!
I wished we lived in the timeline that has Mystic Manor and Mystic Point coming to Magic Kingdom or even Animal Kingdom (maybe Albert being a monkey would be enough of an excuse?) but unfortunately that will likely never happen.
A lot of the ideas sound cool but the snails pace kills the hype IMO. Maybe I’m just salty that TRON won’t be open for my December trip lol
Is anyone going to talk about what it was like to sit in a room full of booing fans. And what his reaction was. I wholeheartedly dislike and do not trust him. So it didn’t really matter what he said or didn’t say. So all the perk’s gone, how much of a bonus do you think he will get this time? I have never heard of so many fights ever. People are so stressed out, that’s a vacation? Last time I was there a father was screaming at his son , all I heard him say was, do you know what it cost to be here. I was in the room next door.
I can’t even imagine what it would take, to make this the happiest place on earth!
Saying you “just don’t understand how things work” may be a feeble explanation of how things are done, but that does not mean that is how things SHOULD be done!! All of these presentations and “blue sky” ideas make me think of the scene where Darth Vader arrives at the Death Star to get construction back on track. They need someone to get the in progress projects completed! Artistic daydreaming is a gift but it is sad that the fans have been left with so much skepticism after so many unfulfilled promises.
I agree that the timelines make it hard to get excited. My daughter *loves* everything Marvel (Webslingers was the highlight of our Disneyland trip for her) so that King Thanos announcement would be right up her alley… until I realize that maybe we can squeeze in a trip to see it before she goes off to college. When you combine those timelines with the previous broken promises (SSE, Cherry Tree Lane, MK Theater) and then throw on absolute horrid decisions (Zootopia in AK, etc.) those tend to drown out the good feelings.
Tom wrote: “This is even after seeing the hideous water tacos and Stargate in World Showcase Lagoon. [….] I thought we’d be stuck with those suckers for at least a decade.”
I’ll bet these use the water tacos/Stargate in the new show. (I hope I’m wrong.)
Maybe, but i saw somewhere that Epcot Forever was coming back in between harmonious and the new spectacular. one of the big reasons last time for the interim show was to have a show they could do while constructing the tacos. maybe this time it’s to have a show while they’re deconstructing them?
Tom, you are brilliant! would truly love to have a mind like yours as an analyst in our organization
Thanks, but I’ll be the first to admit that it’s easier to offer analysis like this when it’s divorced from the practical realities of actually operating a company. Just like armchair Imagineering is much easier than the real thing. Anyone can critique–much harder to actually do!
Thank you for the work you do. If your blog weren’t so well written I wouldn’t bother checking up on what happened at the D23 expo. To answer your question, “What are your reactions to the various announcements for Walt Disney World at the 2022 D23 Expo?” Don’t trust anything said in the heat of passion.
A comment if I might about “When I discuss this with Disney employees, I’m told that I “just don’t understand how things work.”
The reason very few entertainment projects (movies, tv etc) are greenlit and take so long to get done when they are is because the only way you can lose your job in Hollywood is by saying yes. You can usually count on one hand who can say yes, produce a flop and not lose their position. Spielberg is one of those people. Please understand I’m not being cynical or even judging this reality. No one wants to lose an incredible great paying job that also brings with it power and prestige. This is also the reason that originality is in short supply while you get so many copies of already successful programs.
You of course are correct when you write and I paraphrase, “how things can and do work elsewhere……(like at a) lean and hungry organization.” Here’s a good example, the reason the X Files got made was because FOX was a fledgling new network desperate for programming and at the time Barry Diller could say Yes. It’s success caught everyone off guard and the cloning commenced quickly.
Thank you as always for your brilliant observations. I do share your enthusiasm and optimism.
Great comment. If you haven’t seen it, I’d recommend “The Offer” on Paramount+. It’s a series about the making of the Godfather, and illustrates everything you described.
Also, how was the trip? Any observations? Highs and lows? Curious to hear!
Hi Tom
I think where I am on AK / Dino-Rama is this: whatever they decide to put there I believe it will be underwhelming. Whether they do with this blue sky ideas or a new one. A generation ago with any kind of announcement there was a buzz and an excitement. Because no matter what they built, we all knew it was going to be grand and ground breaking. It would be something different. Something for all our senses. A new experience. I just haven’t been thrilled with the latest attractions(haven’t been on galaxy yet). Rat ride, star wars, and shows. They are fine but don’t bring the same excitement as Indiana, Splash Mountain, Toon Town, Tower, Cars. All were so detailed and immersive. Even Star Wars, which is good, just doesn’t bring the same wonder. At least for me. So, until they can prove me wrong I’m not getting my hopes up.
Tom, of the 52 emails (that weren’t spam) in my “newsletter and blog” email inbox, 33 were from DTB, lol. Looking forward to catching up on everything, as we just arrived home from Disneyland last night (we looked but did not see you as we meandered). Just wanted to say well done, you’ve been busy!
I have…and I’m exhausted. Apologies for the typos, rambling, incomplete thoughts, etc.
I keep waking up in the middle of the night thinking of new commentary I want to add. When I wake up in the morning, I can’t make sense of the note I wrote. I feel like Jerry trying to figure out his indecipherable joke in “The Heart Attack.”
Did you have a good trip to Disneyland?
we had a lovely time in spite of the 100 degree weather and then the tropical storm evening. it reaffirmed my love for disneyland and, imo, it’s superiority to wdw.
Josh absolutely did not understand the assignment.
We wanted some perks back, we lost, lost, lost and really nothing came back from it. Will the parks be better if they ever manage to launch half of whats promised? Yes. But the fans are still sore, the pandemic was an excuse for a lot of drastic cuts and the terrible Genie+. In the end they will make it back on record time based on whats left of goodwill and revenge travels. Still love Disney and this is my favorite blog but we really could use some good news.
“…we really could use some good news.”
Totally agreed. I would’ve loved (and preferred!) a concrete announcement for Animal Kingdom expansion rather than nebulous ones for both DAK and MK. Seems like everything good from Disney comes with an asterisk these days!
In 2018, Parks & Resorts got merged with Consumer Products, diluting the focus of the senior level executive. At the same time, there was another position level added in between the theme parks and Parks/Experiences/Products, namely Disney Parks East and Disney Parks West. The end result undoubtedly slowed down the decision making process by adding more decision makers AND giving the senior executive lots more non-parks and resorts decisions to make. Even the later decision to eliminate those Disney Park East/West positions, while better in the long run, undoubtedly caused chaos with this back and forth over only 4 years! (Makes redoing the redo of Paradise Pier look almost logical in comparison.) Don’t forget the Dueling Bob CEOs for twice as many meetings at the top for much of this time, and it’s a wonder that any decisions got made over the past half decade.
For me, I wish they could have been more “specific in their vagueness.” We all know that they’re not going to build new lands in the Kingdom parks simultaneously, so it would have seemed far less blue sky if they could have showed us ideas for *just* the next park expansion. As you say, most of those would work at either place and could be presented as a Magical Dream of Fantastic possibilities of an actual build, sort of how Marvel sticks in Unnamed Movie into its future plans.
(I’d personally love to see a series of proposals for the next hotel, just to confirm that they’re not all the same, but with a palm tree instead of … whatever was in front of Reflections.)
Agreed that there was less short term specifics than I thought, though I think there were more interesting “medium term” things for Disneyland Resort than we usually get into in the comments.
Good points.
At least we didn’t get any announcements about Target stores this time around.
I think we are approaching the time similar to when Must Do Disney could stay exactly the same for ten years cause nothing new got built.
You can count me as someone who also didn’t hate the D23 presentation. I do find myself restraining my optimism for the reasons you mentioned: the lack of details indicate that *if* these things happen, they are a long way off, and a lot can change in a few years. I personally think all of the IPs they mentioned are deserving of rides and stand a good chance of pleasing a large swath of age groups.
With regards to the replacement for Harmonious, have they *confirmed* the water tacos are going? Even if we accept there has been a philosophical change with management at the Florida parks, I really struggle to believe Disney would spend all of that money on them to just tear them down 2 years in. What I will never understand is why they weren’t made mobile so they could be cleared away during the day and sent out say 30 minutes before the start of the show each night. Maybe the “upgrade” is that they find a way to retrofit them to make them mobile? (Probably wishful thinking but again, I just have trouble believing they are going away after spending all that money.)
After my post the other day, I was told it’s a totally new show and not just a remix of Harmonious.
There have since been rumors that EPCOT Forever will return. I know absolutely nothing about that, but it probably checks out. EPCOT Forever is an easy interim show.
Actually, I align with you on most of your commentary. I was surprised that they didn’t hype up some of the imminent items (totally ignored several easy plugs) but I was happy to see the “blue sky” discussions indicating healthy investment in parks is at least on the table. I admit to some skepticism but as a long time DVC & AP holder, I’ve decided to be optimistic and hope it’s warranted! And we did get free pastries at the session so there is that
Wish I would’ve traded my Avengers Campus poster for more free pastries when I had the chance!
Out of curiosity, in your wildest dreams, what does a 5th gate look like?
Cloning Tokyo DisneySea, I guess? Armchair Imagineering isn’t really my jam, especially the blank slate version.
It doesn’t really matter, though, as Walt Disney World will not build a fifth gate during my lifetime. See this for more: https://www.disneytouristblog.com/no-fifth-park-disney-world/
Tom,
I really enjoy your insights and I especially agree with your comment about unwieldy Disney has become and how putting off Tron for example is unnecessary. Maybe Wall Street will have a greater influence on the speed of change at WDW than the fans have so far. Money does talk and fans seem willing to part with theirs even when disappointed, Wall Street not so much.