Will Bob Iger End Investments in Disney World?
During the Q&A of this week’s quarterly earnings call, CEO Bob Iger was asked about the company’s “fight” with Florida and how that could impact the future of Walt Disney World. This post shares his response about the lawsuits, investments in the state, plus our commentary about the legitimacy of the threat.
It’s impossible to succinctly summarize what precipitated these comments, as the saga has now stretched out over a year, beginning with Bob Chapek making comments about Florida legislation that even Iger concedes were not handled very well. That resulted in the state replacing the Disney-controlled Reedy Creek Improvement District (RCID) board, with one hand-picked by the governor. Prior to the new board taking control, Disney and RCID entered agreements that made national news for use of the “King Charles Clause.”
This handcuffed the new board, leading to more legislation by the state to void the aforementioned agreements and more. That has resulted in two lawsuits, one with Disney Suing DeSantis in federal court and another with the governor-backed Central Florida Tourism Oversight District Board Suing Disney in state court. Earlier this week, the company amended its federal court complaint to include new allegations pertaining to monorail regulations and recent interviews given by DeSantis. That more or less brings you up to speed, and sets the stage for Iger’s latest comments during the investor call…
The lengthy block quote below is Disney CEO Bob Iger’s response to the question: “Florida is such a big part of the value of the company, but you have this political issue that only seems to get more press. It seems like you’re stuck with this fight. So, how should investors think about the risk, both the near-term and long-term business for Disney?”
The case that we filed last month made our position in the facts very clear, and that’s really that this is about one thing and one thing only, and that’s retaliating against us for taking a position about pending legislation. We believe that in us taking that position, we are merely exercising our right to free speech.
Also, this is not about special privileges or a level playing field or Disney in any way using its leverage around the state of Florida. Since there’s been a lot said about special districts and the arrangement that we had, I want to set the record straight on that, too. There are about 2,000 special districts in Florida, and most were established to foster investment and development. We were one of those. It basically made it easier for us and others to do business in Florida. We built a business that employs, as we’ve said before, over 75,000 people, and attracts tens of millions of people to the state.
While it’s easy to say that the Reedy Creek special district that was established for us over 50 years ago benefited us, it’s misleading to not also consider how much Disney benefited the state of Florida. Also, we’re not the only company operating a special district. I mentioned 2,000 others. The Daytona Speedway is one; so is the Villages, which is a prominent retirement community. There are countless others.
So, the goal here is not leveling the playing field. If the goal is leveling the playing field, then a uniform application of the law or government oversight of special districts needs to occur or be applied to all special districts. There’s also a false narrative that we’ve been fighting to protect tax breaks as part of this. But in fact, we’re the largest taxpayer in central Florida, paying over 1.1 billion in state and local taxes last year alone. And we pay more taxes, specifically, more real estate taxes, as a result of that special district.
There was no concerted effort to do anything to dismantle what was once called the Reedy Creek special district until we spoke out on legislation. This is plainly a matter of retaliation while the rest of the Florida special districts continue operating basically as they were. It’s also important for us to say our primary goal is always to be able to continue to do exactly what we’ve been doing there, which is investing in Florida. We’re proud of the tourism industry that we created, and we want to continue delivering the best possible experience for guests going forward.
We never wanted and certainly never expected to be in the position of having to defend our business interests in federal court, particularly after having such a terrific relationship with the state as we’ve had for more than 50 years. And as I mentioned on our shareholder call, we have a huge opportunity to continue to invest in Florida. I noted that our plans were to invest 17 billion dollars over the next 10 years, which is what the state should want us to do. We operate responsibly.
We pay our fair share of taxes. We employ thousands of people. And by the way, we pay them above the minimum wage — substantially above the minimum wage dictated by the state of Florida. And we also provide them with great benefits and free education.
So, I’m going to finish what is obviously kind of a long answer by asking one question: does the state want us to invest more, employ more people, and pay more taxes, or not?
Before turning to commentary, we often start by offering the same caveat to begin each of these posts about Disney vs. DeSantis: do not take anything at face value. This is more about political posturing and theater than it is anything substantive. What the actors involved say is not necessarily what they actually believe.
I’d also caution against drawing any premature conclusions. In part, this goes back to the ‘team sports’ nature of the standoff, and people wanting to believe their ‘side’ is in the right and will prevail in the end. There have been tons of the twists and turns in the Reedy Creek saga to date, and no one has gotten this completely right from the beginning. The only thing that’s predictable here is unpredictability.
Commentary-wise, Iger’s framing of this again struck me as savvy. Although this battle will be fought in courts of law, it will also be waged in the court of public opinion. Chapek did a truly abysmal job of that. His fumbled response managed the remarkable feat of alienating people on both sides of the aisle. It was truly a remarkable feat when you consider how polarized people are today–and yet, we all more or less aligned against Chapek. (Albeit for different reasons.)
Fast-forward over a year later. Chapek is gone, Iger is back, and the original comments giving rise to all of this are in the rearview mirror. As DeSantis has boasted, Disney has “not made a peep” about Florida legislation or issues since the skirmish over a year ago. The only ongoing issues involve the special district and how that’ll be governed.
When it comes to public opinion, it’s fair to say that some minds are already made up, and nothing anyone says will sway them one way or the other. It’s almost certain that applies to anyone reading this; you’re either personally invested in this or have followed it closely. It’s also fair to say those in the pro-Disney “bubble” may underestimate just how well this is playing with Republican primary voters, with a clear majority supporting DeSantis in this battle against Disney per polling from March and April.
That’s not everyone, though, and Iger’s answer here is a savvy one. Spinning the state’s approach as being anti-free speech, anti-business and anti-Florida is a sound strategy to sway undecideds. It’s also smart to directly address the special district status and taxes, as there are a lot of misconceptions about both.
Finally, Iger’s answer concluding with a question of his own was masterful. This essentially puts the ball in DeSantis’s court, who will now be asked by the media whether the fight is “worth it for Florida” when at stake is $17 billion in investments, 13,000 new jobs at Disney, thousands of indirect jobs, and billions of dollars in tourism and tax revenue.
Even when framed that way, it’s hard to imagine DeSantis deescalating at this point. Instead, he will likely have a good answer to Iger’s question, and one that’ll play well with the base. He’ll probably spin that as Disney trying to “hold Florida hostage,” an example of Big Business trying to steamroll the state or subvert the will of voters, and again reiterating that he will win over Disney. There will undoubtedly be more to his answer–DeSantis will be prepped well for the question with an answer that hits the right notes, just as Iger was for the question on the investor call.
That’s a good reminder that so much of this is posturing. We usually offer the above preface about political theater as it relates to Governor DeSantis and his presidential aspirations. However, it also applies to the Disney side of this standoff and Iger’s remarks.
DeSantis wants red meat for the base; Iger wants DeSantis to back down. Since those two goals are incompatible, and Iger’s overtures for a sit-down to deescalate have been rebuffed, his next least-worst option is trying to reframe DeSantis’s actions and statements in an anti-business way that’ll be harmful to the state of Florida and its residents. That, too, is posturing.
Nevertheless, even before Iger’s thinly-veiled threat to reduce investments at Walt Disney World, we were hearing regular reader questions about whether that would happen. Now, based on Bob Iger’s straightforward statement, it would appear that there’s an answer to that question.
However, our answer is still the same. It’s unlikely that the company will actually end investments in Walt Disney World based on the standoff with the state. Let’s break down why…
First, no one needs a reminder that Disney is a business. We’ve all had this reinforced time and time again in the last few years with the replacement of free FastPass with paid Lightning Lanes, proliferation of DVC, price increases, and elimination of Disney’s Magical Express. (I maintain that last one was poor and shortsighted even as a business decision, but not the point of this post!)
You’re also probably well aware that Walt Disney World is the company’s cash cow. This has also been reinforced time and time again, most recently on several consecutive earnings calls that discussed record-revenue and per guest spending up 40% of the parks & resorts segment, all while streaming services lost about $1 billion per quarter as they sought to achieve profitability by 2024, tentatively.
It should also go without saying that the company doesn’t build park expansions on a whim. As we point out with the release of every discount, nothing is done out of benevolence or at random. Just as there’s a reason for releasing deals (increase resort occupancy), there’s a reason for building new attractions, lands, etc. All of those projects are expected to offer a return on investment, prompting millions more people to visit Walt Disney World–spending on souvenirs, park tickets, food, hotel stays, and more.
This is mutually beneficial for Disney and Florida. The state collects tax dollars, and tourism to Walt Disney World have spillover effects benefitting other businesses in Central Florida and throughout the state. The ‘Disney Bubble’ is not truly impermeable. This is precisely why the company and the state have had such a good working relationship in the past.
Whether the company invests in Walt Disney World hinges upon whether there’s a business justification for doing so. If it makes sense and they’ll see ROI to expand the existing parks and build new attractions, they will. If not, they won’t. Same as it’s always been, same as it’ll always be.
If there was a plan a few months ago to invest $17 billion over the next decade at Walt Disney World, it’s very difficult to see that changing based on the recent lawsuits, legislation, and public comments. Maybe Iger was posturing then when teasing that investment, or perhaps he’s posturing now by pretending to withhold it. But the company cannot withhold investments out of spite–Iger isn’t Larry David. Doing so would arguably be a breach of its fiduciary duties to shareholders. In short, this is almost certainly a hollow threat.
The only way the company would pause or reevaluate investment is if the latest legislation or public comments have had a material adverse effect on Walt Disney World’s future performance potential or ability to conduct business in the state. Here, it’s theoretically possible that the company views the new CFTOD board as too much of a wildcard, or the potential for future draconian legislation restricting or regulating it as too great.
My personal opinion of the new CFTOD board is not very high. As I’ve written repeatedly, they are not serious people with sincere motivations. However, I also don’t think they have the capacity or convictions to cause a material adverse effect on Disney’s business. I don’t think that’s the end game, either. Again, this all boils down to political theater and presidential aspirations.
Beyond the unpredictability and uncertainty of this circus, the company might contend there’s irreparable brand damage caused by the fight. That this has alienated a certain segment of its core audience, which will now forever forsake its films and theme parks. This has undoubtedly occurred to some degree, but probably not on any meaningful level. No matter what the chronically online might think, most consumers are not that invested in culture wars and won’t deny their kids rite-of-passage vacations over their grievances.
As for what is likely to happen, we’ve actually seen this story play out before–and in the last decade. It didn’t garner nationwide headlines because it wasn’t as provocative, but there was a somewhat-similar standoff with the City of Anaheim. After years of Disney-backed candidates prevailing in elections and supporting business-friendly proposals, the composition of the City Council changed.
Suddenly, the company was receiving much more resistance to its project proposals and sentiment towards previously-approved development incentives soured. As a result, the company cancelled an announced resort and the Eastern Gateway project. It’s unquestionably true that development at Disneyland Resort was set back by several years a result.
Disney’s solution there was to work on repairing strained relations with the community, and also do everything possible to see its preferred candidates prevail in the next election. That’s also arguably what gave rise to DisneylandForward; in the most reductionist terms possible, that proposal essentially seeks to do for the company what Reedy Creek did in Florida. (That’s a very imperfect comparison, but DisneylandForward is not a substantive expansion plan; it’s about autonomy for Disney to build without so much red tape.)
Something similar is likely to happen with development at Walt Disney World and in Florida. Just as they had to “wait out” a then-hostile Anaheim City Council until the next election, the current standoff is presumably over when the Republican primary ends or the pending litigation is decided, at the latest.
It’s possible that the company will enter a holding pattern, hoping that the threat of reducing its investment “reminds” state leaders that the relationship is mutually-advantageous. That doing so convinces everyone that it’s best to drop the bluster and move on to some different culture war. (It’s highly doubtful that’ll work with DeSantis, but it could give statewide politicians pause. Do they want to risk facing a Disney-funded opponent and having to answer questions about this in the next Florida election? The calculus is different for those not running for president.)
The most likely outcome is pausing development of the Imagineering Lake Nona Campus. The company is investing $864 million on that and it’ll bring 2,000 high-paying jobs to the state. This has already been delayed and may have trouble meeting its current target date as-is. Formally hitting the brakes on that and leaving those jobs in California would signal that Disney is “serious” about its investment threat for Florida.
Another possibility is that Walt Disney World delays future announcements until this standoff ends. In Bob Iger Reveals Plan to Invest $17 Billion on Walt Disney World Expansion, we predicted that Animal Kingdom expansion would be announced at the Destination D23 event this fall. If this is still a hot-button issue, I would not expect that announcement to occur. To the contrary, I would not expect any major announcements for Walt Disney World while this battle brews.
To make a long story short, what’s most likely to happen is delayed announcements and timelines potentially pushed back as a result. (It’s also unlikely that anything already under construction is going to be paused. Tiana’s Bayou Adventure, Moana’s Journey of Water, and all the DVC additions will likely proceed as planned.)
However, there are real obstacles to the company commencing construction at Walt Disney World in the near-term that go beyond this. Specifically, Hulu and ESPN need to be sorted out (bought and/or sold), the streaming segment needs to attain profitability or at least stops hemorrhaging ~$1 billion per quarter, and some of the company’s debt should be paid down.
Some or all of those things pretty much have to happen before meaningful CapEx can be spent on Walt Disney World. That alone puts the start of this work in late 2024 or 2025. So in short, the standoff could impact the announcement timeline and might delay some projects slightly, but the bigger impediment to actual construction is all of the above.
Admittedly, this all assume the best case scenario with the standoff continuing to play out mostly in courtrooms. There’s always the possibility that the fight could escalate or the relationship between Walt Disney World and Florida could deteriorate further. If you told me a year ago that Chapek’s hamfisted handling of this would snowball into Bob Iger and the state filing competing lawsuits against one another, that would’ve been a surprise. (Not the Iger returning part–that’s the least surprising bit of this all.) There have been so many twists and turns in this saga that it’s impossible to predict the eventual outcome. However bad it might seem now, there’s always the possibility of the situation worsening.
Ultimately, about the only thing we can safely predict is that Walt Disney World will continue to exist in Central Florida. The company is not going to pack up its flagship theme park complex and move to another state–this isn’t Theme Park Tycoon. That would cost tens (if not hundreds) of billions of dollars that the company does not have, and would not spend even if they did. The governors of California, Colorado, Georgia, South Carolina, etc. don’t think they will, either.
As with so much of this, that’s just more theatrics or political posturing. The company is playing the long game with an eye towards its long-term future in Florida. Walt Disney World will outlast Governor DeSantis and every statewide politician in Florida; if worst comes to worst, they’ll work to get more friendly politicians elected. Wouldn’t be the first time.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
What is your reaction to the latest developments in the battle of Florida v. Disney? Think Bob Iger hit the right notes during the earnings call, or do you agree with the governor’s approach? Think the company really will withhold investments in Florida, or is this a hollow threat? Is this one of this no-win situations where everyone loses the longer it’s drawn out? Keep the comments civil, and avoid personal attacks or perpetuating pointless culture wars. Respectfully debating the change is totally fine, but don’t attack others or troll for controversy. That’s why Facebook was invented.
This is hurting both Desantis and Disney. All Desantis needs to do to beat Trump is be likable. He is failing. Disney needs stop being woke. They should re-hire Gina Carano and Depp. They should stop diversity casting in classic roles. I’m predicting The Little Mermaid will totally flop.
I just need to say, casting a nonwhite actor or actress in a film is not “woke.” I am no fan of these live action remakes they are doing, but it’s because they are poor films with none of the magic of the originals, not because they include nonwhite actors.
“Will Bob Iger End Investments in Disney World?” would be a great title for a recession story, too. That’s more likely to affect investment decisions in WDW over the next 3 years or so.
Agreed. This will play much more heavily on any future investments.
California is a much more difficult state to do business in than Florida, and Disney still manages to thrive in California. For those of you who say that Disney should just leave Florida, you need a reality check. There is a reason why Walt picked Florida for his East Coast theme park. No other state offers the weather, the demographics, the beaches, etc., that Florida offers Disney. Disney has spent over 50 years developing WDW to what it is today. Disney is not just going to walk away and set up shop elsewhere. Reedy Creek won’t influence Disney’s long-term investments in Florida in the slightest. After all, it’s all about how much tourism revenue the investments can bring in for Disney. I actually believe that Disney will sell off the physical assets of WDW in the future to a third party operator, with Disney merely owning the licensing rights to its IP. This is how Disney Tokyo operates and this park is likely the best run Disney park in the world.
As someone who lives in St. Louis, ever since I learned of Walt Disney’s Riverfront Square, I’ve been obsessed with the idea of a St. Louis-based/themed Disney park. I know it will never happen since STL isn’t the city it was in the early 1900s, but it’s fun to think about. Our Six Flags feels like it’s drying out and would be put out of its misery by a Disney park.
i mean, i will not spend any money anywhere in the state of florida while the current governor is in office.
Good for you. Take your money somewhere else. Florida won’t miss you. There are plenty of others who would love to take your place in line.
That’s fine, I will for both of us!
This has been such an utter fail from DeSantis. Just for the record, those polls showing the base supporting his fight against Disney are not as good as they might sound to the uninitiated. If the base of your party *isn’t* supporting you by a wide margin, you’re in trouble.
Additionally, to the extend this has turned people against one group or the other, all this polarized political nonsense will do is cause the far-right to boycott Disney, and move Disney’s audience left, thereby giving Disney *more* incentive to speak out against his legislation. Like most power-mad leaders, in their aggressive behavior all they end up achieving is the opposite of what they claim they would like to.
I don’t believe Disney will ultimately withhold investments in WDW. Their theme park business is their most profitable of late, and they cater to the interests of their shareholders, so while they can afford to grandstand for a while, in the end they will capitulate. DeSantis, or at least his brand of politics, is not going anywhere. The people of Florida reelected him with a thumping majority. If it’s not DeSantis, they will vote in another Republican with similar political positions. The culture wars, especially targeting the LGBTQ+ community, have proven a winning formula in the former Sunshine State.
Disney has a clear-cut case of government retaliation. DeSantis, his officials and lawmakers have publicly incriminated themselves again and again – not even the filing of the lawsuit has prompted them to fudge their intentions behind this series of bills that singles out Disney’s special district for stricter regulation by governor appointees. That’s because they know the verdict won’t be driven by a legal interpretation of constitutional rights; it is the political leanings of the judges who will interpret those laws. Given that the highest court in the land, SCOTUS, is stacked with GOP appointees – one of whom has openly signaled his intention to deprive equal rights from the LGBTQ+ community – it is a foregone conclusion that Disney will lose.
For me, my days of visiting Florida are over. Between this and other laws passed by DeSantis and the FL legislature, with the overwhelming support of the state’s voters, FL feels like an extremely hostile state for LGBTQ+ people. I feel safer, and happier, and my conscience is clear, not participating in the state’s economy. My sympathy is with LGBTQ+ Floridians who don’t have the same choice.
Messing with politics is usually, sooner or later, a bad idea for corporations. Paraphrasing Michael Jordan, a business should not be marketing itself to half its potential customers while alienating the other half (lobbying is a different matter). But we’re past that point’ it is water under the bridge.
Stop investing in Florida at a time when Universal is EXPANDING? It would be laughable if it were true and very bad business. So, I don’t think it is true, but posturing. However, as remarkable as the human spirit has proven itself, humanity’s capacity for stupidity should also never be underestimated.
35 years ago those stock shares in Kodak and Sears looked pretty sweet. Where are they now?
Those who say that DeSantis will pass are correct. But dabbling in the culture wars is always going to fraught with danger, Disney needs to play the long game, yes, but it needs to make the extra effort to show that it is going to stay out of politics (of course, doing what they can to fight to retain their rights is perfectly fine, but they need to make the appearance of fighting clean, not sneaky, which can further anger the populace).
From my perspective, Disney is still acting like they truly don’t understand what they did, nor do they understand that Florida no longer needs Disney like it once did. What is needed is a public and corporate mea culpa, not just casual comments from Iger. Public humility can be followed by public redemption. Of course, that applies beyond the current political mess, but that’s another story.
The only good news about this is that all Disney Parks worldwide have achieved energy independence, as Walt’s spinning in his grave so fast, they’re getting enough power to put 4 more parks in Florida.
The imperial view of the presidency or governorship, where those who dare to disagree with the government must be punished until they beg for forgiveness, is both expressly un-American and prevented by the Constitution. The idea that Disney “doesn’t truly understand what they did” and must apologize is ludicrous.
Tom has asked us not to debate HB 1557, which is fine. Here, however, is what Disney is trying to achieve:
“Iger drew parallels between DeSantis’s efforts to silence CEOs and those who were bullied into staying quiet about human rights abuses during World War II.”
“’Those that stood in silence, in some ways, still carry the stain of indifference,’ Iger said. ‘So as long as I’m on the job, I’m going to continue to be guided by a sense of decency and respect and trust our instincts that, when we do weigh in, we weigh in because the issue is truly relevant to our business and to the people that work for us.’”
“I never asked what the financial repercussions would be, and didn’t care,” Iger wrote. “In moments like that, you have to look past whatever the commercial losses are and be guided, again, by the simple rule that there’s nothing more important than the quality and integrity of your people and your product.”
“Ultimately, about the only thing we can safely predict is that Walt Disney World will continue to exist in Central Florida. The company is not going to pack up its flagship theme park complex and move to another state–this isn’t Theme Park Tycoon”
Thank you for this. All of these suggestions of “moving” WDW are ludicrous. You don’t pick up a theme park and move it. As you say, this is not a great time for relations between Disney and FL, but it will pass and WDW will stay put. As you say, this is posturing to score points and both sides know that. Nonetheless, it’s absurd and unproductive and I’ll be glad when this silly fight is over.
In other words, don’t exercise your freedom of speech or else…..
Not sure you’re going to see Universal or any business continue to invest in Florida, as they see how the government can attach and try to hurt a business due to free speech and political issues. If the Florida government can do this to Disney, imagine what they can do to you.
To clarify, I am not defending DeSantis or the FL government here at all. I am just saying you cannot lift up a huge theme park and move it to another state.
Tom:
I don’t disagree with your analysis per se. You bring up valid points. However, I think some of it tends to lack knowledge of things on the ground in Florida.
#1 It’s widely misunderstood and misreported that Disney delayed opening of the Lake Nona Campus due to DeSantis. That’s simply not true. The construction was delayed because of the pandemic and construction delays (the same ones that slowed the opening of the Tron Ride). What Disney did was delay the reporting of employees to Lake Nona because of the construction delays.
#2 Disney is no stranger to political problems with local governments both left and right. Anaheim, which is run by Democrats, has been far worse in terms of business environment. And in that case, we are talking about actual business disputes not arguments over Disney’s political stands on other issues. The reality is that Florida, despite what everyone is saying, is far more friendly to Disney in terms of dollars and freedom to expand than California or any other state one could point to. Disney got (or is getting) massive tax subsidies to build in Lake Nona.
#3 I think you make a good point about Iger playing this off on DeSantis. It’s a great move on his part, even though I don’t think it’s true. The reality, as I just stated, is that construction costs have skyrocketed here in Florida due to inflation and lack of construction workers. Industry challenges, such as high construction costs, the shortage of building materials and labor, and rising interest rates, have slowed the progress to a crawl on virtually every major construction project (and frankly, smaller ones too). So the real reason for any delay will be that but Iger is smart to deflect blame. RCID has been a huge benny for Disney and understandably they’re not happy they lost it. (Even though, IMO, it wont change much of anything for Disney).
#4 Disney doesn’t have many other places to expand, especially not in the U.S. Florida is it. With Disney losing money on its other business lines, the theme parks are necessary capital investments, assuming Disney will be able to afford them. And that’s before we get to discussion about Universal…
#5 There is an anti-Disney sentiment brewing in Florida because Disney has been pushing its neighbors around. The Brightline fiasco is one such example.
#6 Florida is having record tourism in Florida, much of it due to its beaches not due to Disney. Florida’s residents are struggling due to inflation caused in no small part by people wanting to move here. Property sales haven’t cooled that much despite interest rates being double what they were two years ago. Floridians aren’t exactly enthusiastic about MORE people moving here. Disney may be overestimating its strength here.
1) I don’t think that. The delays don’t line up with this saga, and Disney specifically said that wasn’t the reason for delay at some point last year. I think the original Lake Nona timeline was unrealistic–we saw a ton of delays on construction projects on the ground throughout Central Florida (when we did live there).
2) Agreed, and that’s discussed in the post. I’m have no delusions that California is a particularly business-friendly state.
3) “Even though, IMO, it wont change much of anything for Disney” Probably true. I’m frankly a bit surprised Disney didn’t let things die with the change from RCID to CFTOD, and then try to revisit appointments under the next governor.
4) I don’t think Disney will build more parks in the US, as they’d cannibalize from the existing ones. Discussed that to some extent a while ago in this post: https://www.disneytouristblog.com/new-international-parks-countries-inevitable/
5) Not surprising. Disney “taking its ball and going home” with Brightline was a bad look, and not the least bit productive.
Aaron, Tom,
great thread and great points. Thanks for the added commentary to the article.
I’m amazed at how many people read your “Disney Blog” that hate Disney …….. mmmmmm is it because you’re a really good writer or ???
Sorry. I didn’t explain myself properly in my last post. What I meant was don’t take a threat from Disney lightly.
I remember when I was a kid, it must have been the late 80’s or the early 90’s, when Disney sued a daycare because they had Mickey & his friends painted on their without their permission. Because of that my elementary school stopped showing us Disney movies.
I think Iger was serious about his threat, but it will be in away no one is expecting. Maybe they’ll stop the Good Neighbors Hotels program.
I doubt Disney will do anything that could likely paint them as the bad guy. I remember talking about the daycare case in law school. Disney had to sue when the daycare refused to back down.
Many people do not realize that Disney does not own the copyrights to the Disney Characters forever. Over the years, and thanks to some heavy Disney lobbying, a character created after 1978 is protected by the law from infringement for the life of the Author plus 70 years. The characters before 1978 fall under a mishmash of old laws and court cases.
In order to maintain their copyright, Disney has to keep their characters from being used anywhere and everywhere without a license. Of course they do license out tens of thousands of products, but when they are made aware of a business, even a daycare, using unlicensed images, Disney has to act. They first issue a cease and desist letter, but will take it to court if need be. This daycare was violating the copyright, Disney was made aware of it, so if that wanted to protect their copyright, they had to stop the unauthorized .
An interesting side note to what I mentioned above. “Steamboat Willie” with the first version of Mickey Mouse loses copyright protection at the end of 2024!
The governor states: We will not let Disney subvert the will of the voters. Not a Florida resident, but what exactly was on the ballot regarding “anything Disney”that voters were asked to vote on? And don’t say the “don’t say gay law”. Disney expressing an opinion in support of a part of their employment base was not “subverting the will” of the voters.
Chapek said, we will fight the law, THAT is subverting the will of Florida voters. What Chapek should have done is allowed the disgruntled Burbank employees to have their one day walk out protest and stated, “we will not involve the company in Florida politics, we will however continue to monitor the situation for any evidence of discrimination against anyone for anything and vow to fight that, wherever it may exist. ” That would have assuaged reasonable minded employees, not mischaracterized the FL Bill and nothing would have happened. Instead, Chapek caved to a group of people who mischaracterized the law and continue to do so. Disney is not entitled to self governance. The privilege to do so was granted at the leisure of the FL legislature and can be revoked as such. No right has been taken away from Disney, they exercised their right to free speech and continue to do so. I find it curious how so many people have no problem with trying to “cancel” people when they say even the slightest thing that goes against the leftist orthodoxy but are all up in arms over WDW losing a special privilege, the never had a “right” to?
Thank you for comments Pete. This is what matters:
I believe there are moral stances and political stances. Saying a certain group of people has a right to exist is a moral stance. Disney wasn’t the one who weaponized the opposing stance for political gain, they simply acknowledged the humanity of a large portion of their employee population and customer base in defending against politicized efforts to dehumanize them. I’m truly sorry for any of your loved ones who don’t fit your definition of “family”.
I have lived ab worked in FL. My parents retired to Ocala. O will.only go back if we go to.Disneyworld. It is a fetid swamp.of racism and misogyny. Toss in that if you aren’t an evangelical Christian, you are harassed. My.Mom.and Dad were,Catholics..They frequently had Jack Chick.Tracts left on their doorstep. Wrong kind of Christian.
In.my house,,we call Ron “DeSatan”. He is slime mold on feet.
Full disclosure: I’m reading this saga of articles just to see what pictures you pair with the post. They border on satire at times. Love it.
This is a very astute, clear-headed and in my opinion accurate synopsis of the political posturing and the motivations and likely outcomes of this battle. Given the usual finger pointing and naive cultural entrenchment usually read on the internet I find this quite refreshing, so thank you. I must say that I see it as advantageous for DeSantis to continue to up the ante here – at least through the primaries as the polling you reference suggests this is a winning issue with the base and he really runs almost no political risk by poking Disney – no matter how these antics play with the country as a whole or even Florida independents, until the primaries are over. Win or lose, after the primaries I suspect many of these issues may work themselves out as DeSantis goes back to trying to appeal to the larger electorate. But oh boy these next few months may be interesting…
It’s not really a huge winning issue for his base. It certainly has support but not the overwhelming support these culture war style gambits typically garner in either base, especially given the hyperpolarized nature of American politics. I think DeSantis, having blown past the many off ramps he had up to this point, can’t back down now without looking weak, but pushing forward only gives Trump more to attack him on.
Certainly it makes total business sense to withdraw future investments in their cash cow in Florida when Universal’s Epic Universe is rapidly making progress to reach completion in 2025.
They must be certain UEU will not jeopardize any of their business… as, we all know, more retheming of attractions will surely protect them from Universal’s aggressive competition.
It is not just Desantis … the entire Florida Republican legislature owns this also.
I wonder what the people of Florida would say to their legislators if potential tourists to Florida made it known they will visit WDW … and not spend a dime of their tourist money anywhere else in Florida.
I spent 2 weeks last year in Florida – helping Florida recover from the hurricane by spending my tourist dollars all over the state.
That will not happen this year. I do not intend to spend 1 dime outside WDW until the retaliation has been fixed. Sadly … that includes getting on any cruise ships sailing from a Florida port.
Florida has nothing to do with how you live your life in your home state. So get off your soap box already. if you don’t live here, stay out of our politics.
Hi, Tony. Like RANA, I’m one of the 21 million average visitors to WDW each year. We can certainly vote with our dollars regardless of what state we live in. You have that right and so do others. I’m not saying I agree with Disney or DeSantis on this issue, but people can definitely express and support their view with how they spend their money.
@Tony
Given that state revenue from tourists allows Floridians not to pay state income tax and that Disney is the single largest taxpayer in the state, I think they should have a say in Florida politics, especially when it affects WDW.
All of this could have been avoided had Disney kept out of politics outside of lobbying (of course)
Not to mention that I have zero sympathy for a company that keeps charging insane amounts of money for everything, allows drunks to come to the parks and ruin the family friendly atmosphere (I drink quite a bit myself, but there’s a time and place for everything), spending billions on a stupid role playing hotel with no theme park access that costs as much as the average economy class ticket to Japan and a day ticket to Tokyo Disneyland and Disney Sea and killing the identity of the parks with constant IP dependency and zero original ideas
The political blunder is only icing on a sundae made for a dung beattle.
and thats only on the park side of the business.
They want to blame everything on Desantis when really it’s their own fault for alienating their core base: families
Well said!
I’m going to try my best to respect Tom’s wishes with this comment but it’s pretty clear you’re saying some families are don’t count as families and that loving/supporting “non-tradional” families is somehow playing politics.
I believe there are moral stances and political stances. Saying a certain group of people has a right to exist is a moral stance. Disney wasn’t the one who weaponized the opposing stance for political gain, they simply acknowledged the humanity of a large portion of their employee population and customer base in defending against politicized efforts to dehumanize them. I’m truly sorry for any of your loved ones who don’t fit your definition of “family”.
I’m complaining more about the drunks and the disney adults than anything else
I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it – Voltaire.
You are obviously not an ideal client for Disney
Not anymore anyway
I have zero interest in the parks anymore, not even EPCOT, my most beloved park
Exactly!!
Simply put, don’t go to Disney World if that is not how you wish to spend your money. Problem solved.
I go about once per year, if I am lucky. I have never seen drunks at Disney World. Maybe because I don’t do EPCOT pub crawls, but it’s just not a thing.
I applaud Disney and it’s culture, it’s support of families of all shapes, sizes, countries of origin, sexual preferences. It only serves to include and not exclude. Aren’t you tired of hating?
When I read that Disney paid $1.1 billion in taxes last year, I was shocked! I guess I shouldn’t be, but wow, that’s a whole lot of money that Florida could use. And future Disney development, hiring, employee benefits including education? DeSantis is not only politically clueless, he is fiscally clueless. This is not going to end well for the state of Florida if DeSantis doesn’t find another pet political grievance.
Gotta run and book my next Disney vacation!
Thanks Tom for ALL of your hard work in putting this amazing blog together. I look forward to receiving all the very useful information!