Reflections Lakeside Lodge at Disney World
Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge is a planned nature-inspired resort for the former River Country water park location along the shore of Bay Lake between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness at Walt Disney World. This development would be mixed use, with both hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. (Updated May 9, 2024.)
Originally announced back in October 2018, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge will “be a celebration of Walt Disney’s lifelong love and respect for nature” with more than 900 hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. Reflections resort was slated to be the 16th Disney Vacation Club property, part of a significant expansion on the hotel side of Walt Disney World. That plan would have brought a total of more than 1,700 new hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas online over four years.
Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge was further elaborated upon at the 2019 D23 Expo, and it was billed as one of the “most unique resorts ever built” at Walt Disney World. Concept art was shared of the novel accommodations, including both treehouse suites and waterfront A-frame cabins that would be available at the resort. Reflections — A Disney Lakeside Lodge would also feature a restaurant inspired by Princess and the Frog, located “along the bayou of Bay Lake.”
May 9, 2024 Update: Let’s start by bringing you up to speed, as not much has happened with Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge in roughly 4 years. Back when the parks closed and all construction stopped, Walt Disney World mothballed the construction site for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.
The project was effectively cancelled and crews on site removed concrete and rebar. At that point, pretty much all that had occurred was site clearing and staging for construction to begin. The project had yet to begin foundation work, let alone vertical construction. Fast-forward four years, and it’s essentially an empty parcel. The future home of Reflections is still visible from California Grill or even the boat en route to Wilderness Lodge–it’s the big empty area amidst the trees.
Today’s development is that Walt Disney Imagineering has filed a request with the South Florida Water Management District to extend one of the permits related to ‘Project 89’ by an additional 5 years. This is one of the big picture ‘permit packages’ for the proposed resort, pertaining to construction of the resort and (as the name suggests) water management resulting from the project.
Disney’s request indicates that the project is not complete because it was shut down due to the COVID closure. Interestingly, Imagineering states that those conditions “delayed the completion of this project.” Delayed is technically correct, but not the word I’d use to describe the status of Reflections. Disney deleted past references to it and hasn’t publicly mentioned it in over 4 years. It’s as if Reflections never existed, which is more consistent with the Play Pavilion than CommuniCore Hall (the latter of which was delayed; the former cancelled).
This also isn’t the first Reflections permit that Disney has sought to extend. Last fall, Florida granted Walt Disney Imagineering a 5-year extension on another permit related to the construction of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. That permit will now expire on May 31, 2028. That permit was for the STOLport Site–near the former Walt Disney World Airport, with STOLport standing for Short Take-Off and Landing. Reflections wouldn’t be built on the STOLport site, but it would act as a convenient staging ground located between the TTC and Fort Wilderness. That extension was less conclusive that Reflections would be revived than this one, as it also could have served as a staging site for another project, such as the DVC Cabins at Fort Wilderness.
Since reporting on the last permit extension, we’ve received credible rumors (plural) that this lodge concept is being revived. I was skeptical at first, given all of the Disney Vacation Club projects that are currently underway and will be actively selling in the next few years (see below). However, I’ve heard enough to be convinced that Disney’s plan is to proceed with plans on this parcel.
My expectation (and this part is speculation–not rumor) is that Disney will wait to announce until it’s strategically advantageous from the perspective of DVC sales. Disney is very methodical with its Disney Vacation Club approach–longtime fans may recall over a decade ago when Bay Lake Tower was going vertical and Disney still pretended it didn’t exist.
Don’t be surprised if something similar happens here to avoid cannibalizing Cabins at Fort Wilderness sales (conversely, the lodge might be viewed as an asset to that–and announced earlier as a result). The bottom line is that this isn’t necessarily a 2024 D23 Expo reveal. It’ll happen when it’s most conducive to selling more DVC. If it happens. It could be at the D23 Expo in August 2024, but it also could be tomorrow or via press release on some random weekday in April 2025.
Also don’t be surprised if there are material changes to the appearance of the lodge or its name. Again, purely speculative. But with so much passage of time, different leadership both at Imagineering and Parks & Resorts, and shifting trends in hotel design, it seems inevitable that what we first saw in 2018 will change to some degree by the time it opens almost a decade later.
In the intervening years since Reflections was mothballed/cancelled/delayed indefinitely, a trio of new Disney Vacation Club projects in the Magic Kingdom resort area has been announced, indirectly replacing Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. The first and smallest of these was at Walt Disney World’s flagship resort, converting one outlying building to new Resort Studios at the Grand Floridian. That project is done and available for sale already sold out.
The next of these is the New DVC Tower at Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort (pictured above), which is currently under construction and is slated to open in late 2024 at Walt Disney World. Based on the incredibly quick pace with which that expansion is being built, there’s no reason to believe it’ll be delayed. This will be a license to print money for DVC, as everyone loves the Poly. It’ll sell out fast, regardless of Reflections (meaning the latter will not cannibalize Poly sales).
Finally, there’s the Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort – A Disney Vacation Club Resort (concept art below). These are slated to start opening in July 2024, before the Poly tower. This is the biggest question mark–does announcing Reflections help or hinder sales of the Cabins at Fort Wilderness? (The answer probably depends upon how Disney treats them.)
The other reason it’s worth drawing attention to these projects is because there are a lot of them. In addition to the WDW additions, the Villas at Disneyland Hotel is now open and being actively sold. Then there’s Disney’s Riviera Resort and Aulani in Hawaii, the latter of which has been on sale for years now; there’s a decent chance Aulani will never sell out of DVC points. This is all significant because it means a ton of points being sold simultaneously, and numerous resorts competing with one another for the attention of buyers.
Based on past precedent, it would thus seem unlikely that Disney Vacation Club will resume Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge anytime soon. They’ve started too many projects and have too much for sale right now already. However, it’s not just the permits. That alone could be ignored or explained away as pertaining to another project, housekeeping, or Imagineering wanting to keep its options open. There’s enough smoke here that there’s probably fire.
Reflections resuming in 2024 would’ve been deemed crazy even ~5 years ago, back when Disney Vacation Club didn’t announce the next project (and literally denied the existence of construction occurring in plain view), but a lot has changed since. Back then, DVC tried to space its additions so they wouldn’t directly competing with one another. Announcements for the next DVC property didn’t start until sales were healthy and had progressed for the previous one.
Things have changed more recently, and Disney Vacation Club has had several properties for sale simultaneously for the last several years. There hasn’t been hesitation in announcing the next big expansion or starting construction–it seems like there’s been a philosophy change. Perhaps now Disney Vacation Club is fine with a larger number of properties being available for sale, with the thought process that more variety equals greater consumer choice and a higher likelihood of selling memberships. (After all, they’re all going to sell out eventually…well, maybe minus Aulani!)
Another possibility is that Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge is on the precipice of resuming, but not as a Disney Vacation Club project. At least, not right away. Walt Disney World needs more hotel inventory, too. There’s nothing to say this previously mixed-use development couldn’t start as a hotel project, but be built with the long-term intentions of “conversion” to Disney Vacation Club when point supply and demand dictated as much. That does seem very plausible to me, and might be what Walt Disney World opts to do. (In that case, I wonder how they message the ‘nature’ of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.)
Regardless of what happens in the near-term, it’s pretty safe to say that the Reflections site will be developed at some point down the road. Walt Disney World only has so much prime parcels for resorts, and this is one of them. Not only that, but a lot of the site prepwork was already done and it’s still in pretty good condition. It just makes sense for construction to happen here in the future, and my guess would be that it starts before 2030.
Whether that’s Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge or a totally new concept is anyone’s guess. The further removed we get from the prior mothballing/delay/cancellation, the more likely it is that Disney will revisit both the name and the concept. Even if this project were re-announced tomorrow, I think the odds are pretty good that the concept art would look materially different and the name wouldn’t be the same.
Turning to my original commentary, I love Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. I’m a Disney Vacation Club member. In theory, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge seems perfectly tailored to some of my favorite things about Walt Disney World. I want to love the idea of the River Country parcel finally being redeveloped, instead of rotting in plain sight. I’m truly hopeful for the best here.
Unfortunately, like pretty much every Fort Wilderness fan, I’m very apprehensive about this Disney Vacation Club project (well, mixed-use, but presumably mostly DVC). Part of what makes Fort Wilderness special is that it’s been relatively undisturbed by time, and is one of the last bastions of “Vacation Kingdom of the World” era of WDW.
It’s almost remarkable how different Fort Wilderness feels from the rest of Walt Disney World—even its neighbor, Wilderness Lodge. It’s almost as if Walt Disney World leadership has forgotten about Fort Wilderness, and it hasn’t seen the same fiscal mandates, changes in emphasis, or character as every other resort over the last couple decades. In large part, it’s been doing its thing, more or less unchanged since the 1990s.
There’s a very legitimate concern, especially after seeing how the Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge projects at Wilderness Lodge unfolded, that any expansion at or around Fort Wilderness will destroy the primitive and secluded characteristics of the campground that give it so much appeal. After all, this is a campground with wilderness right in the name–the environment is the heart and soul of Fort Wilderness.
The development of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge doesn’t necessarily have to destroy the tranquil and secluded atmosphere of Fort Wilderness, but that seems like a very distinct possibility. Disney’s recent approach to developing hotels adjacent to existing resorts doesn’t inspire much confidence, and if there’s a ham-fisted approach when clearing land or an overzealous mentality when it comes to the size or proximity of the resort to the campground, it will be incredibly detrimental to Fort Wilderness.
As for the design, only a couple pieces of concept art have been released, and they’re nothing special. I don’t want to rush to judgment here, as I think there is potential for this to end up being interesting once more is released, but right now it looks like a fairly generic hotel with some modern rustic flourishes.
On the plus side, Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo (WATG) is the lead designer for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge, and they have a very good track record with Disney. They designed the original Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, along with Disney hotels in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong.
If this were a decade or two ago, I might be more deferential to Disney with regard to this concept art. However, the last several years have shown that Walt Disney World is very hit or miss with resort development and redesigns, skewing towards boring designs. It seems the approach is to choose the most middle-of-the-road offerings as possible so as to not alienate those with bland tastes.
When you compare Walt Disney World resorts built before the mid-1990s to ones built or redesigned in the last few years, there’s generally a clear division. Contemporary projects are often interchangeable with real world Holiday Inns or other mid-tier chained brand hotels.
Look at the difference between BoardWalk Inn or Beach Club and the new Gran Destino Tower at Coronado or Disney’s Riviera Resort. Don’t get me wrong–I like both for the amenities they offer, luxuriousness, and room designs. However, the exteriors of both leave a lot to be desired, and neither are exactly exemplars of themed design. (Admittedly, they have both grown on me a lot, but I still wish they were more ornate or unique.)
One explanation is that Disney wants to make things as crowd-pleasing as possible so as to not alienate any potential customers. The thing about this approach is that when you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one.
Another explanation is that Imagineering’s talents are spread too thin. I know some readers might only follow the projects at Walt Disney World, but every single property around the world has huge projects in various stages of development or construction.
In the past when less was occurring simultaneously, maybe some top-tier Imagineering talent who “got” Disney’s distinct approach to hotels worked on a resort project. Now? Maybe they’re mostly designers who view working for WDI as “just another job” no different than Best Western or IHG.
Along those same lines, with so many projects in development, it’s entirely possible–if not probable–that leadership in the Parks & Resorts division is trying to trim the budget from each one, cutting aspects or details viewed as superfluous.
The problem is that those leaders are not creatives, and their experience is often in consumer products or other division of the company. They have absolutely no insight into what details are actually superfluous, and what are necessary for reinforcing theme or creating a sense of immersion.
Ultimately, more concept art could be released that’s really good. The project could employ a deft hand when developing around Fort Wilderness in a way that doesn’t damage that landscape. (Disney, just think of how much you could pat yourselves on the back by utilizing eco-friendly and sustainable construction practices–it’d be worth it in the PR alone!) It could end up being really good–a true tribute to both Walt Disney’s love of nature, but the spirit of River Country, which was never coming back anyway.
I’m cautiously optimistic that’s what could end up happening, but I think it’s equally likely that we’ll get a generically modern and vaguely rustic design. It’s also more likely that instead of eco-friendly construction that preserves the natural beauty and wilderness of the area, we get excessive tree clearing for the construction, and an end product akin to Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge in terms of wide walkways and bare grounds.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
Are you optimistic or pessimistic about Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge? What do you think of the potential of this and other new hotels at Walt Disney World? Any other questions or comments? Hearing your feedback is part of the fun, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
My dream would be for Disney to go ALL IN on a Frontierland-themed resort. Similar to what the have at Disneyland Paris with Hotel Cheyenne–but deluxe. It would be in keeping with the aesthetics of Ft. Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge, but maximalist on the the Wild West theme. Similar to Disneyland Paris’ Frontierland, there would be three restaurants: an upscale steakhouse (Silver Spurs), one middle tier restaurant (Lucky Nugget), and then the quick service would be like Last Chance Cafe. I know this is a pipe dream because Disney a) no longer invests in themed resorts and b) seems to be wanting to reduce it’s “wild west” offerings, not increase them. But a girl can dream.
If they end of building Reflections (and I hope they do) they should build a Storm Along Bay equivalent pool area and theme it to River Country. That would be some serious nostalgia for those of us who miss River Country!
Two speculations going on the DisBoards about all those DVC additions:
1) DVC doesn’t care anymore much about having resorts taking years to sell, out because the rooms sell very well for cash. Like you said, WDW needs more hotel inventory, so a new DVC resort serves like that in the first few years.
2) Big speculation: Reflections or whatever might end up being integrated into the same use plan as the cabins at Fort Wilderness. Those have extortionate maintenance fees and probably that’s the main reason why they are selling badly. Adding a bit tower will help to spend the MF and if they really end up building a great pool with a lazy river and give access to it (a new Stormalong bay) to the cabins will greatly increase their appeal.
The question is whether this can change: “1,700 new hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas”
Trying to fit more than double the number at the Wilderness Lodge on a similar plot of land just screams “big box”, especially if you want to make it shorter than the Lodge (that’s a priority for me). I’d argue that Portofino Bay has succeeded in making a well-themed “tower on it’s side,” but that looks like a lot more space to work with and only has 750 total rooms & suites – about the same as the total rooms, Villas and Cabins at the WL. Bring it down to that size, and then WDW do something interesting on that property, like a 4-star Wilderness Junction and DVC.
To answer your last question, I’m optimistic and 100% believe that Walt Disney company will build and develop on that land. I’m pessimistic that they will design and build something creative and unique. The resorts built since Bay Lake Tower have been bland and boring designs with very little exterior theme. Something worth mentioning in regard to all of the DVC offerings is that we are now on the precipice of a great many DVC resorts and their contracts to expire. Nobody knows what is going to be done with those DVC points and contracts once those expiration dates arrive. It’s hard to imagine Disney looking 20 years into the future as to what they want to do with old Key West, boardwalk villas, beach club villas, and the others. But they may need new DVC inventory once the resale market craters on these resorts.
I hope they do something more consistent with the Great Lodges – National Parks theme. To your point, any new amenities could help boost interest in the Fort Wilderness Cabins, esp if shared. Perhaps a bigger themed pool and some added themed dining or shows could be added. Hopefully, any potential build adds to the story of the Great Outdoors, rather than distract.
Disney has generally lost their way, and no longer operate in a manner consistent with Walt Disney’s creative vision. Instead of creating magic and detailed fantasy, which then created demand and then profit, they look for maximum short term profit in all things. This means lowering costs always, trimming the little “extras” that made the Disney product stand out from anyone else. Cramming in maximum hotel rooms on the monorail loop to maximize profits, thereby reducing the magical feeling of being in a world by yourself. Instead you’ll have non stop clutter from the TTC all the way around the lake. You have to look no further than the DVC bungalows at Polynesian on the water which add obscene profits with the outlandish nightly price, and NO reduction in price for the wildly expensive main rooms that now have an extremely degraded view due to these bungalows. At some point, visitors will start realizing that Disney really doesn’t care about the magic anymore, it’s purely profit motivation. Nothing wrong with profits for your shareholders, but the profits go away when your customers turn away.
When they re-file the cranes with the FAA (anything you build over 199’ or a certain distance from any airfield has to be checked against aircraft instrument procedures), I’ll let you know.
Hoping they don’t have to file that permit and go back to a design more like the Eisner era resorts. Shorter buildings with highly themed exterior elements. No tall towers please.
YES! The artwork for the original was garbage. Horribly out of place…
Fort Wilderness campsites provided people who couldn’t afford regular Disney resorts a chance to camps with their kids. I think Disney should expand the camping area, and forget about this Lakeside Lodge. They already demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of FW guests in the way they addressed the need for more dining there. I wonder what the Imagineers and planners who designed MK would think of today’s “ Imagineering “ Their reaction would be: “. This is not how we did it!
Just to be clear, the Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge concept art in this post is from 2018 and 2019. There was actually some shown at the 2019 D23 Expo that looked better (the a-frames), and two other pieces that looked just as bad.
With over 4 years having passed since then, I would hope that if this is announced as resuming (and that’s still a big if), they’ve revisited the aesthetic.
As a DVC owner at WL for 18 years and a lifelong camper (first trip in 1980 was in a pop up!) these drawings make me want to throw up. So uninspired. The bus ride now between the lodge and the campground is so depressing. I loved that nature trail and walking and biking between the two. I’m not opposed to more lakeside cabins (my dream stay, not those Poly Bungalows) or even opposed to a new lodge but they have to do better. Back to the drawing board.
It looked like doodoo several years ago and the artwork still looks the same. Horrible and not deserving of being anywhere near or between WL and Ft. W. No thematic continuity whatsoever, and using the word lodge to describe it is criminal at best.
Disney clearly wants to ruin Fort Wilderness. Bring in higher priced vacation club members that are used to upper level service and not hanging with lowly RVers . Wait until you see the Karens start to appear at the Fort complaining.
Eventually they will get rid of all camp sites and make it mostly vacation club and rental cabins. Either that or it will get overwhelmed by the people with access from Reflections.
Whichever comes first.
The last time Disney updated the cabins (a few years ago), they removed a loop of them to add more campsites.
Who knows what’ll happen in the future, but there’s nothing to suggest Disney wants to eliminate campsites and replace them with DVC cabins. That’s not the plan now, and recent precedent doesn’t support that fear.