Why Rivers of America Is Worth Saving.
Walt Disney World is gearing up to demolish Tom Sawyer Island and commence construction on the Piston Peak ‘Cars’ area of Frontierland this month. The Rivers of America will not be saved, let’s be clear about that. This is not a last-minute plea for Imagineering to change course.
It’s instead aimed at addressing the aesthetic and artistic merit of this area of the park for posterity and precedent. My real hope is that the fans who have been dismissive about the ‘value’ of the Rivers of America can understand why places like this are an asset to theme parks.
Because this isn’t a conversation confined just to this one replacement–it’s an ongoing one that’ll continue in the years to come. That’s true generally, but also more specifically with regard to the Rivers of America, which is on the chopping block elsewhere in addition to Walt Disney World.
This comes against the backdrop of the in-park areas that Piston Peak National Park will replace permanently closing. Rivers of America, Tom Sawyer Island, and Liberty Square Riverboat will all close on July 7; the last day to experience any of these attractions and locations is today (or “was” if you’re reading on Monday).
I wanted to offer a closing ‘love letter’ to the Rivers of America, and the best tribute I can offer is making a case for it (yet again), and sprinkle that essay with my favorite photos I’ve taken of the RoA over the years. So you can either read what I have to say or simply scroll and enjoy the visuals if you’re sick of this debate.
From the outset, let’s make a few stipulations. I’ve seen much of the debate about replacing Rivers of America with Piston Peak revolve around a few points, which strike me as (respectfully) missing the point. With that in mind, I’ll agree to all of the following points and address them in turn:
- Tom Sawyer Island and Liberty Square Riverboat are not popular.
- Cars Rally Racers and the family-friendly ride will be popular.
- Magic Kingdom will be more popular with Cars than Rivers of America.
- Pixar’s Cars franchise can fit Frontierland.
Let’s start at the top. It’s no secret that the Liberty Square Riverboat and Tom Sawyer Island don’t have the hourly throughput numbers as most attractions in Magic Kingdom. Eliminating them reduces operational and maintenance expenses on attractions and areas that are underutilized and don’t offer as much operational ‘bang for buck’ to the company.
Because of this, some fans will likely be entirely okay with this decision to eliminate the Rivers of America–as is their right. Many longtime fans have probably never even been over to Tom Sawyer Island or done a lap on the Liberty Square Riverboat. Others probably have done so infrequently over the years, and will do these new Cars attractions more. This is necessarily true–hence the ‘underutilized capacity’ term.
There should really be no argument that the guest throughput of Piston Peak’s queued attractions will be higher than what it’s replacing. The Cars Rally Racers attraction will likely fall somewhere between Seven Dwarfs Mine Train and TRON Lightcycle Run over time, making it a top 5 attraction in terms of utilization. These are obvious points, not “gotchas.” It’s silly to pretend that any reasonable Disney fan advocating for the Rivers of America believes otherwise.
The more controversial stipulation is #3, which is that Magic Kingdom will be more popular with Cars than Rivers of America. I’ve heard some detractors of the Piston Peak plan claim this is the beginning of the end for Magic Kingdom. While I’m somewhat sympathetic to that line of argument (more on that in a minute), I don’t believe it.
If Imagineering delivers, Piston Peak will be a marketable addition and Cars Rally Racers will appear in ad campaigns. It’ll be on billboards, commercials, promoted social media posts, and so forth. Rivers of America isn’t on any billboards. Aside from saying their goodbyes, a large number of guests are not booking trips specifically to see it. Disney has metrics showing that Cars will move the needle; the same cannot be said for the Rivers of America.
From my perspective, this also at least partially misses the point. Theme parks are not just the sum of their ride rosters, to be raced around and checked off one by one. They are as much defined by the spaces in between; by the absence of attractions, too.
Viewing theme parks checklist style, with each ride being viewed in a vacuum is how you end up with studios parks where everything is housed in a big soundstage and the theme is “movies” or something nebulous because it’s the most efficient route. This approach yields the Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris, Disney California Adventure 1.0, and areas of Disney’s Hollywood Studios.
Moreover, this line of reasoning is antithetical to Animal Kingdom, Tokyo DisneySea, EPCOT Center, Disneyland Paris–and the other best versions of castle parks. As much as I love Disney’s Hollywood Studios and think it can have a great sense of place, this is largely true in the areas that did not faithfully re-create the backstage experience. At least, aesthetically.
Suffice to say, there’s a reason so many of Imagineering’s recent lands have been a departure from this style. Toy Story Land and Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge are far from perfect, but they’re a stylistic breath of fresh air for DHS. The legacy lands at that park that are best, in my view, are Hollywood & Sunset Boulevard and Echo Lake. Many fans would agree, and that’s largely for the atmosphere. Guests feel the difference, even if they don’t realize it and it isn’t surfaced by satisfaction surveys.
Even Universal has realized this! So much of the praise heaped on Epic Universe isn’t about the attractions (although it does have several excellent and envelope-pushing rides), it’s about the sense of place. Ministry of Magic only has one ride and one show, but the newest Harry Potter land is such a triumph of design that guests enjoy simply being there.
The same can be said for Celestial Park, Dark Universe, Super Nintendo World, and Isle of Berk–every single land. Epic Universe has its issues, sure, but the bones of the park are positioning it for long-term success. They’ve been working at getting away from their soundstage-style for the better part of two decades now, trying to be more like old school Disney, design-wise.
Few areas at Walt Disney World excel from a being there perspective quite like the Rivers of America, Liberty Square Riverboat, and Tom Sawyer Island. These are incredible assets to Magic Kingdom not just for the guests who actively utilize these attractions. They offer serenity and delightful atmosphere even to guests who stroll along the waterfront promenade, stopping for a moment to catch their breath and take in the view. It’s impossible to quantify this. That’s precisely what worries me.
Sometimes Disney’s decision-makers view the parks as figures on a spreadsheet, and from that perspective, it’s easy to overlook “underutilized” things that are incredibly important to the Disney theme park experience from a holistic perspective. A fairly persuasive argument could be made that every guest who walks through Frontierland and gazes over at the Rivers of America, hears the Liberty Square Riverboat, and has their stress-levels drop by a percentage point or two has “utilized” these offerings.
It may not click in the moment, but it’s the “little things” we treasure just as much as a ride on Big Thunder; small details or quiet moments that become indelible parts of our memories from visits to the parks over the years. These little things might seem superfluous on paper, especially when the alternative is expanding the park and growing capacity by thousands guests.
By viewing the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island as underutilized real estate that’s expendable, Disney is missing the forest for the trees. Spaces like these are what help make our days in the parks special and separate Disney from the competition. They give us little moments to pause and absorb the big attractions and experiences we’ve enjoyed. These things and places are what keep us coming back.
There’s a long term price to be paid for viewing the parks from the perspective that every square foot must be put to its most efficient use, have its capacity maximized, or be directly monetized. That’s too myopic of a view, and ignores the practical reality that guests form impressions based on the totality of their visit, with those little things or counterprogramming adding as much as the E-Tickets.
If everything is go-go-go, the guest experience as a whole can suffer. And that’s true even if the individual attractions replacing the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island end up having higher guest satisfaction scores. There are some things that are impossible to quantify–that guests just absorb, even without realizing it. This is precisely why we value atmospheric entertainment–the energy can be felt subliminally even if not consciously. It brightens the mood, even if unknowingly.
It’s the exact same idea with the Rivers of America. There’s no guest satisfaction “metric” for how many guests per day walk along that waterfront promenade, pause for a deep breath, smile and take a photo. It could be an indelible moment burned into their memory, or, more likely, a fleeting bit of happiness. It is striking the delicate balance of experiences and emotions that makes Magic Kingdom, well, magical.
In other words, atmosphere can matter as much–maybe more–than a guest adding another notch to their ride tally. It was important to their day as a whole. It was a much-needed reprieve from the often stressful nature of the world’s most popular theme park. This has long been my perspective on the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island–that they are invaluable assets that serve as counterprogramming to give guests an expand from the paved pathways and hustle and bustle of Magic Kingdom.
Spaces like this also play a role in elevating the cultural role of theme parks, and reinforce our viewpoint that theme parks are not only folly for children. Theme parks as art. One of my favorite hidden gem books is Designing Disney’s Theme Parks: The Architecture of Reassurance. This is one of the most academic and esoteric books about theme parks, and it spends a lot of time examining the design intentions of Disney Parks as symbols of Americana, and the cultural value they offer beyond consumerism. I believe that the Rivers of America fit squarely in this analysis, as a deceptively simple man-made “natural” environment that speaks to something deeper in us. I fear that this deceptive nature means we also won’t appreciate the full extent of what it offers until it’s gone.
Admittedly, it’s also a matter of nostalgia and sentimentality for those of us who lament the loss of the Rivers of America. This waterfront promenade is one of my favorite places in all of Magic Kingdom, and we have so many memories of this waterfront walk late at night with a cool breeze coming off the Rivers of America, or early in the mornings as the sun flitters through the trees. It is one of those places in the park that allows us to slow down, take a deep breath, and soak up our surroundings. Maybe that makes me biased, and overly sensitive to losing the Rivers of America when the average guest reaction will be: “Who cares? Bring on Cars!”
However, Disney is also biased as evident from lessons learned by the late 1990s and early aughts. The company recognized what a mistake not looking at the parks holistically was, and that’s precisely how we got Cars Land at DCA, World of Frozen, and pretty much the entirety of the Disney Adventure World overhaul. Looking back at the portions of opening day DCA that were good and are still around, they’re mostly well-themed, atmospheric locations–Grizzly Peak, for instance.
This is precisely why I’m receptive to the spirit of the argument that losing the Rivers of America could hurt Magic Kingdom’s popularity in the long-term. To be clear, I don’t actually believe that this will happen as an immediate or direct result of this decision. Magic Kingdom will become more popular in the 2030s than it is today.
The concern is with the line of thinking that views the parks as the sum of their individual parts, wait times, and Lightning Lane sales data. Taken to its extreme, this thought process is the one that gives rise to massive E-Tickets in big square show buildings. It’s how the atmosphere is gradually eroded, all in the service of the ride roster or maximizing every square foot of real estate.
Even this concern feels hyperbolic, honestly. The truth is that Walt Disney World has great bones, and was designed tremendously well nearly six decades ago. That there are a lot of cuts that can be made to the ‘fat’ (superfluous serenity and design) before that bone is hit.
We just saw this play out with Island Tower at the Polynesian. Its exterior is ugly; plain, cheap-looking, and discordant with its surroundings. If Seven Seas Lagoon were originally designed as a bunch of Island Towers in the 1970s, there would be no love for the area. No one would have nostalgia because it’d be utterly forgettable.
And yet, it doesn’t destroy the skyline because the bones of Seven Seas Lagoon are so strong that you can overlook it. To the extent that it succeeds, Island Tower does so by leeching off the quality of and love for its surroundings. Irreparable damage to Seven Seas Lagoon would take many more Island Towers, because the original design is just that good.
It’s a similar story with Magic Kingdom or even EPCOT; the bones are so good that it’s hard to imagine any single misguided decision dooming the park. At least, for me. Some fans have identified losing the Rivers of America as their tipping point, and while I hope they’re overreacting, I cannot fault them for the sentiment at this point.
Although this argument strikes me as hyperbolic, it nevertheless worries me because of how quickly fans are to excuse poor decisions or design. It looks fine. It’s good enough. For me, it’s concerning that we as a fandom often make excuses or do not hold Disney to its own high standards. (An issue I’ve had since the Court of Angels controversy and “it’s just stairs” debate.)
As a reminder, Disney itself returned to these high standards only after a series of decisions so poor in the late 1990s and early aughts that they culminated in a series of theme parks that were infamously not up to Disney quality. They were so bad that the tipping point was reached, normal guests noticed, and their attendance suffered as a result.
My view is that great placemaking, themed design, and those “unnecessary” details are precisely what makes Disney, Disney. We all have so many superlatives for why Walt Disney World is a special place, and it usually isn’t just a ride roster. It’s the little things that elevate the theme parks to an art form. It’s precisely what makes us the source of ridicule for outsiders who dismiss Disney as “kids stuff” and us as adults with juvenile interests.
Looking towards the future with a more optimistic eye, my final stipulation on my list is that Cars can work in Frontierland. I would hazard a guess that this is where I lose most fans of the Rivers of America. Many are rightfully worried about loud googly-eyed zooming around the wild west. On its face, this Pixar franchise in Frontierland seems utterly discordant.
My view on this is that Imagineering has worked its magic in the past, taking movies and characters that seemed at odds with their respective parks and lands, and making them feel incredibly cohesive. We saw this with Pandora in Animal Kingdom, as well as arguably Frozen Ever After, Remy’s Ratatouille Adventure, and Cosmic Rewind in EPCOT. With the exception of the Rat Ride, all of those were met with fierce fan backlash when originally announced. (Especially Pandora–it was just mostly pre-social media, so many fans have forgotten or missed it entirely.)
While thematic cohesiveness of those additions is up for debate, my underlying point is that framing devices and choosing the right canvas can work wonders. In the case of Cars in Frontierland, they’ve picked Piston Peak National Park as the setting. This could work. It could work well! Better than Cars in Future World or Tomorrowland, if you ask me.
When it comes to matters of timeline, lore, setting or story, my perspective is more ‘relaxed’ than many fans. The frontier is an American spirit. That sense of rugged individualism, manifest destiny, big folklore, and western exploration–all of it is as much an ethos as it is an era.
As America gets older and the 1800s are further in the rearview mirror, the case could be made that the bygone era of the U.S. National Parks are part of that spirit. It was a different time in America, but one that embodied a similar sentiment as the “go west, young man” age. Our National Parks are America’s Best Idea, and their spirit and landscape is at home in the modern American understanding of the frontier.
The America of today is further removed from that automotive boom and heyday of the western ‘Great American Road Trip’ than Walt Disney was from the Old West when he dreamt up the concept of Frontierland. At least as far as the passage of time is concerned, the middle of the last century is already older than the Old West was in the 1950s. I could go on and on–and do here: Can the Cars Franchise Fit Frontierland?
But the thing about this is that it only works…if it works.
Pandora could’ve been a trainwreck; a jarring break from the harmonious areas of Animal Kingdom. Ditto all of the changes at EPCOT. You might even contend that some entries on that list were failures, not success stories. I’d argue that Walt Disney World has made plenty of other thematic missteps. Just because Cars can fit Frontierland does not mean it will.
Piston Peak National Park is the right setting, but Imagineers must now nail the design, landscape, soundscape–literally everything. It’s going to be a very tough needle to thread; far more difficult than choosing an obvious thematic fit for any given land. (Mickey & Minnie’s Runaway Railway in Toontown, for example, had no such concerns; nobody is truly worried about Monstropolis being an eyesore in DHS.)
The bottom line is that if we’re losing the Rivers of America, it had better be worth it. The marquee Cars attraction needs to be as good as Radiator Springs Racers. The themed design of the area must be superlative and in keeping of the rugged spirit of Frontierland. The new area must have great kinetic energy and atmosphere.
Since this project was first announced, I’ve been reassured that Imagineering understands the assignment. The new Fun Map looks promising and Imagineering’s explanation of their inspiration and how they’re working to ensure thematic integrity and sightlines is promising.
This Cars miniland is in capable hands. The project team clearly loves Disney history, classic animation, and Walt Disney World as a whole. They “get it” and will do everything in their power to lovingly create a land worthy of the American West and spirit of Frontierland. They realize they cannot deliver two overly-short attractions, a sea of concrete and some trees, along with a concept that feels at-odds with Frontierland.
This has gotta be strong. They have to make the skeptics (like me) concede we were wrong about ever questioning the wisdom of replacing the Rivers of America. The hesitation for me at this point is that we’ve been burned many times in the past. Beautiful concept art to sell fans on projects, with the finished product being a sad shell of the promise. Budget cuts and value-engineering into oblivion. You get the idea.
If the finished Piston Peak looks like the Fun Map, it’s going to be a triumph that makes all the above concerns sound like the silly rantings of a lunatic. But that’s still an “if,” and a rather large one, at this point. Here’s hoping the executives get out of the way and give Imagineers the resources needed to make this essay sound idiotic in a few years. I’d love nothing more than to sound silly; this is one situation where looking idiotic would be a massive win.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
How do you feel about Walt Disney World retiring and replacing the Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island with Cars? Has your opinion on Piston Peak evolved or improved at all since Imagineering revealed the Fun Map, plus more about sightlines and inspirations for the area? Do you think the two all-new Cars rides coming to Magic Kingdom are “worth it”? Do you agree or disagree with our sentiment? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
So very sad my kids will not get to explore TSI, and relax on the Riverboat. Walt wanted his parks to be “a world of Americans, past and present, seen through the eyes of my imagination–a place of warmth and nostalgia”. The imagination and exploration TSI provided was almost unique in the park and the modern Disney morons have robbed and destroyed that along with another nail in the coffin for Walt’s vision. Liberty Square is next they want to erase the them of Americana and replace with whatever modern ugly aesthetict hey think better. Just wrong on every level. All they had to do was blend Rivers and TSI into whatever else they wanted to build anew, thereby keeping Frontierland. But instead they just destroy.
I am furious,about what Diz is about to do. to make matters worse, they have recently “cleared” some ten acres of virgin forest that once stood on the west side of Frontierland- beyond the berm. This Land is to be used to store construction materials. Upon viewing a photo of this mess, it hit me that they should simply BUILD CARSLAND ON THIS SITE! If they did, the Rivers of America could be saved!
I agree! Ambience is so important to theme parks – and that typically includes water. People love to be near water. In a hectic place like a theme park, water adds a calming presence. We’ve all been in concrete amusement parks and in natural parks. The perfect theme park seamlessly marries those two.
It’s Americana gone bye bye for future generations, very very sad! Follow the money is what it’s all about!! Walt would be very heart broken I believe! The money spend to push aside former CEO etc! They have more land to use vs taking out rides.
The days of just strolling through the parks to enjoy them are long gone, for a push to make more money. Taking my grand kids now is nothing like it was when I took my kids. So, much more enjoyable then vs now. Even my adult kids say the same thing.
Hopefully, who ever replaces Iger, will see the light, or Disney will start loosing their loyal fan base. A fact not a wild guess!!
I absolutely agree. it’s about a VARIETY of attractions for all ages to enjoy. the Rivers area was a calming, historic piece of Americana that, in this world of gratification, people should learn about
Thanks for your thoughtful analysis Tom.
I grew up in CA going to Disneyland and I don’t have the same attachment to WDW.
As long as I can still visit the Rivers of America and ride the Mark Twain and the Columbia at Disneyland, I’ll be happy.
I’m excited about the new Carsland ride.
Tom, has anyone announced or surmised what will happen to the LS Riverboat? I think they could’ve gone a long way toward soothing some nerves had they announced the riverboat would be repurposed as the new “Empress Lily”. This would fill a lot of holes. First of all it would make right the insult of changing/removing the old Empress Lily from Disney Springs. Secondly you could put in a slew of restaurants in the riverboat, both casual and fast service. This fills a huge void at the MK in its lack of good dining spots. I don’t where they would put it, but I imagine somewhere on its current trek. What do you guys think? Tom, thanks for being a WDW voice of reason all these years.
Great post and I need to go back and re-read, along with all the insightful comments. My quick question is are you aware of a book or article that discusses customer “throughput” and what the “bean counters” are analyzing when pushing back at Imagineer’s concepts?
Great article as usual. I always appreciate the love for Designing Disney’s Theme Parks — being in the (seemingly tiny) dot of venn diagram overlap between humanities academia and passionate theme park fandom, it’s an all-time favorite book. I strongly believe great theme park design is true collaborative art and deeply human. I’m hopeful Piston Peak will meet that mark.
Great post. At its core, the future of Frontierland is the question: Will it still feel like Disney? The alternative is that in an effort to squeeze every dollar out of every inch of real estate, it ends up feeling like something entirely different and unrecognizable. I hope that those of us who are currently concerned and cautiously optimistic can stroll through Frontierland someday and sigh, smile, take a picture, and happily reminisce about what was and how amazing Disney magic continues to be.
I think this is one of your best blog posts. It captures the delicate balance between the various aspects of a theme park. Nostalgia, atmosphere, theming, and rides.
I don’t know if I’ll prefer Piston Peak. I’m a little underwhelmed by Galaxy’s Edge, which, IMO, looks like some remote place anywhere on earth. I do, however, love Carsland at CA.
I’ll add one off comment since you mentioned it. The new Poly towers are not good. My friends call it the Hampton Inn. Not only is the exterior theming from a distance look unremarkable, it overcrowds the Poly and ruins that atmosphere.
I’ve heard it called the “Poly-day Inn.” I wish I could take credit for that, but it’s not mine.
I don’t think it’s quite that bad–and the rooms are really quite nice. But I agree that it’s a net negative for the Poly and Seven Seas Lagoon as a whole. The one saving grace is the new waterfront lounge, which is fantastic. And you can’t see the tower from there! 😉
“If Seven Seas Lagoon were originally designed as a bunch of Island Towers in the 1970s, there would be no love for the area.” …or they just could have called it “Waikiki Beach.” Aulani is evidence that Disney fully understands the value of place making, even when the natural environment is the true star of the show.
Tom,
Strong article. I’m 65 and my first visit to MK was in 1972. Tom Sawyer Island and Rivers of America were a huge highlight back then. I grew up reading Mark Twain and the like. Liberty Square and Swiss Family Treehouse remin to this day two of my favorite places in WDW (along with Main Street as well as several places in the other parks.) We started taking our kids to WDW in 1995 and have gone there about 16 times as a family most recently in 2023, I note this to set context. WDW is truly an escape of epic proportions for us. For the escape to have some proportions, it needs places to counterbalance the frenzy of others. That is what the promenade along Rivers of America provides. We find other areas to pause and soak in the magic in MK but they seem fewer and less fulfilling.
We still visit Swiss Family Treehouse, usually at dusk, every time we visit MK. If Imagineering is given the resources, they would be wise to build into the replacement project an area that n which park goers can stop, sit, relax and take in some otherwise unexpected natural wonder. My sentiments would lend this area to a vast and impressive water feature (eg “Yellowstone Lower Falls” like ?). The sight and sound of rushing waters to be viewed from afar and close up, lend well to the idea of epic escape and would arguable fit within the national parks theme.
Here’s hoping (1) that Disney hears you Tom on your underlying commentary; and (2) resources Imaginerring to do its very best to honor what is being lost and to set the bar even higher with what’s to come.
I like it better there than in Tomorrow Land and it now likely means the end of tomorrow land speedway which takes up a lot of space and could bring something else very interesting in the future.
I do wonder what ideas were pitched that would have left the river/island intact but rethemed. Relative to movie IP or even original park IP, having such a large footprint for public domain IP was always on borrowed time, but it’d be interesting to see if they could have done anything with the area without doing much *to* the area.
I’m also curious if this is the trial balloon for park-original-in-the-universe-of-movie IP that could influence details about things like Villians Land.
It was my understanding that the original proposal for Beyond Big Thunder (back when it was Coco, Encanto & Villains) involved turning Tom Sawyer Island into a peninsula, docking the riverboat, and eliminating the back half of the rivers. With that, there would’ve been more substantive expansion beyond the berm and on the other side of the railroad tracks.
Even with that, I doubt the Tom Sawyer elements would’ve survived. That’s just a guess on my part–but if the area were going to be higher traffic, it would’ve needed a lot of modernizations for accessibility (etc), and I suspect they just would’ve redone it completely at that point.
Tom Sawyer, just like Song of the South-based Splash Mountain, wouldn’t have survived the “New” Disney no matter where Cars went.
This is an excellent article – thank you for posting. Although I’ll miss Tom Sawyer Island I get it; I’ll have the memories of how much FUN my sons had there while growing up. I agree with you that the entire Rivers of America area is stunning, relaxing, iconic and a beautiful place to take a breath and enjoy the beauty as you walk along the water. It sets MK apart from all other “theme parks” out there. I know we a can’t save ROA but can the save SOME OF IT by keeping portions of the river as part of the Piston Peak landscape? The renderings lead us to believe they will be water BUT we’ve seen how these areas/ refreshers don’t end up looking like the renderings at all (i.e., Epcot). Water is soothing and I urge Disney to make sure plenty of water to stroll by/near in Piston Peak. Parents and kids need a place to just take a deep breath.
A new comment on a different sub element of this. In part a response to many commenters on who lament that they could have “just” expanded outwards and left the Rivers of America untouched. (and in part, because much as I enjoy 99.9% of your commenters, the odd one sneaks through who comments just to be nasty or snarky. Best response is ignore.)
They do have the gift of space in Orlando that they don’t in Anaheim; it’s a bitter pill to consider, but it is surprising it didn’t happen in Anaheim first.
BUT…. I also recognize that the parks are a lot more expensive to visit than they were as recently as 10 years ago. A lot more. I am lucky enough to be able to afford it, but I know many who want to go, and can’t. We can view this as bottom-line profit driven, and of course it is. But there is probably also an element of this which keeps costs down, too. Much as I would like to have my Rivers of America cake and eat Carsland too, it is getting harder to swallow the prices every year. It seems highly likely to me that there was a much greater expense involved in fully expanding outwards, and keeping existing in place (not to mention expense of maintaining increasingly old infrastructure… surrounded by water).
Although it’s not directly relevant to the topic at hand (and seems perhaps to contradict above to some degree), I also do appreciate that they are expanding and adding more as denser “infill” to existing theme parks than this notion of a “5th gate”. Perhaps that day will come, but my time budget is even more at a premium in Orlando. We visit from Canada, and only come every few years, so we try and get in “everything”, which is already borderline impossible (particularly since we do also enjoy the growing Universal parks too). I would much rather visit Animal Kingdom as a “full day” park (and open at night: PLEASE!), which would allow me the time to linger over the details, than have to figure out how to “do everything” in Animal Kingdom in a half a day and then skip over to another park to make full use of my day. … or, I have to do a “trade-off” to spend a full day in Animal Kingdom, but have less time to spend in the Magic Kingdom (for example). So this kind of “infill” – in both Animal Kingdom, but also in Magic Kingdom – where I can justify a full two days in MK, and a full day in AK (and probably “lose” waterpark or Disney Springs time), has the paradoxical effect that we can find time to “enjoy” Carsland, in a way we never really could with the Rivers of America (as anything other than a scenic speedwalk between Haunted Mansion and the Frontier mountains).
So while I understand, sympathize with and agree in my heart that the park is better with Rivers of America, I also appreciate that it is – in a roundabout, indirect and paradoxical way – going to help me enjoy the quiet moments, and linger at scenic vistas more. I really do prefer Florida to Anaheim, overall, but I have much less time to linger in the same way. And, for this writer at least, when I do that in Anaheim, you are far more likely to find me in Radiator Springs quieter areas than in the madhouse that is the Anaheim Rivers of America. I do hope (and believe) they will also use this opportunity to build that kind of expanded space for crowds…. and out of the way areas to avoid them… as part of the Cars National Park land.
You can sum all of this up as “I have no real argument other than, I like it, so I will instead blabber on with vague/empty platitudes.”
And here I thought that liking a theme park and its contents was why we went! I guess I stand corrected!
One of the things I loved about Frontierland was the sightlines – seeing the waterfall of Splash Mountain in the distance, the imposing peaks of Big Thunder – the whole “weinie” concept was in full force in Frontierland. The storytelling started from far away. Blocking those views with more fake rockwork feels pretty bad to me.
I love Cars land at DL – it is spectacular at night and is my fav of all the IP “lands” but
I enjoyed looking at TS and the Riverboat and would still imagine riding the boat and the “west” as it was and if Main Street USA is the heart of Disney World – Tom Sawyer Island was the lungs as mentioned a respite of the hustle and bustle ( which I must admit to being a type A get as much done…) of the park and a “natural” speed bump to slow down and get a lemon aid from Aunt Polly’s and sit in a rocking chair. As much as I did not like loosing the Muppets this change may be the most jarring. Many towns across the nation preserve open space and yet 99% of the population only looks at it – yet it has a value.
Magic Kingdom is a Theme Park not an amusement park.
I will now return to yelling at the clouds
There is nothing much to add to your own typically thoughtful comments, or those of your typically thoughtful readers either. But I will anyway!
When my in laws recently visited Paris, they did not “do” the Eiffel Tower. Too crowded, and too difficult for their special needs daughter. But they knew they were in Paris the second they saw it. We haven’t “done” Tom Sawyer Island in our last few trips, and to be honest, it often has felt more like a chore than a charm when we have. But we love it for just being there, and it is as central to our memories and mental maps of Disneyland and Magic Kingdom as the castle. Similarly, I find Space Mountain (Florida version) to be rather ‘clanky’ and less than fun in recent years compared to its Anaheim equivalent, and Cosmic Rewind makes it almost ‘unridable’ by comparison. But that exterior!! It IS Tomorrowland to me. Will it stand forever? Probably… but only because its innards can be updated or (horrors!) replaced. But even then, maybe not.
With all that said, I am just wistful. Disney was built on wistful nostalgia, and still thrives on it. But, let’s face it: Disney is not Paris. Its true history is not real history, and never has been: its iconography is pop culture history, mostly found at the movies and on tv. The entire world would be aghast at the loss of the Eiffel Tower; I think, with all due respect to everyone (including myself), what is “iconic” to one generation when it comes to pop culture becomes a faded tired memory to the next. There are some things that are timeless (or seem to be), but it seems that Mark Twain era riverboats and canoes, and John Wayne era Western movies, may not be among those, at least not as they existed in the imagination in the 1950s through the 1970s. As I have commented before, the population and economic fortunes of both the Domestic USA, and international tourists have radically overwhelmed the parks, or would have, if they had not grown and changed since first being built. There are a lot more people wandering around the Rivers of America. Relative to Paris, the Eiffel Tower takes up no space at all and can be seen from everywhere; relative to the Magic Kingdom (and Disneyland)…. “something’s gotta give”. The natural “feel” of the Rivers and the Island has always been an illusion: there is no wildlife (none that is welcome), and their are steel rails under the water. The Mountains of Radiator Springs “feel” just as natural…. as do the floating islands of Pandora. Big Thunder already represents the loud, noisy, stinky clamor of the industrialization of the West… and who doesn’t love Big Thunder, or argues it doesn’t represent an iconic image of one kind of frontier…. while also being a symbol of its coming to an end.
One commenter mentions the opening scene of the video game Red Dead Redemption containing a car, and a melancholy view of the beginning of the end of the Frontier. In an earlier comment, I believe I referenced the Western movie The Wild Bunch for much the same reason (it centrally features a car as a symbol of the end of the era of the “Wild Bunch). Ironically, the movie Cars itself has this same feel! I am no great fan of that movie (it was made when Pixar was just “killing it” in the early 2000s and suffered by comparison), but it is unmistakably playing from the same songbook: Lightning McQueen is stranded in a forlorn Radiator Springs that modern superhighways and commercial racing sponsorships have “left behind”. But he found there a wistful melancholy Frontier spirit and a sense of something lost, and a community, all of which he also found restorative. I think any “good” Western movie has this same sense, and that’s how we (think we) know the Frontier in the first place. Davy Crockett (for Disney) and John Ford (= John Wayne’s best director) served this up for audiences in the 1950s; Pixar, Clint Eastwood and Taylor Sheridan have done that for more recent audiences (see, e.g., Sheridan’s Hell or High Water, a “western” set in 2008 Texas in which car chases abound.). I do think that done right this new Cars “sub-land” can be just as “Frontier” as anything that has ever been in a Disney theme park.
Now if only someone could do something about the theme park HOURS so we can fully enjoy the (fake) naturalism of Carsland at night… and Pandora!!! (What a tragic waste that park closes before the sun goes down!)
There are many great comments here (too many to respond to all of them), but this one really stands out. The comparison to the Eiffel Tower is one I’d liken more to Cinderella Castle, with Rivers of America being to MK what Jardin du Luxembourg is to Paris. Which is to say that the former is the defining feature of the place, whereas the latter is a huge asset, but probably isn’t outcome-determinative in whether people do or don’t visit Paris/MK.
I remember your previous comment about the Wild Bunch. I agreed with that then and now. This is a common theme of modern westerns, and I absolutely agree on this more expansive interpretation of the American frontier as opposed to the Old West.
Our family always loved this area and although we are happy to see Cars Land, especially for our grandson, I’m not sure why Disney couldn’t have just expanded past Big Thunder Railroad to build it. They have plenty of ground. We did make one last trip in November and were able to go to Tom Sawyer’s Island. Our grandson loved the barrel bridge, even at 3 years old. Since we didn’t go over until almost closing, we didn’t get to the fort to let him play. The island was always a great chance to slow down and take a breath, which is something everyone could use. When our children were little, the Island gave them time to be just kids running around and having fun exploring. Aunt Polly’s was always a stop while we were there.