News & Rumor Update: FastPass+ Changes, Club 33 & Disneyland Luxury Hotel?
It’s time for another Walt Disney World and Disneyland news and rumor round-up! This time, we’ll discuss modified FastPass+ booking windows for off-site guests, Club 33 in Florida, a new luxury hotel at Disneyland Resort, and more!
In addition to these “interesting” stories, We also take a look at a variety of smaller stories, none of which merit their own blog post. From the NBA Experience to the last accolades awarded to Victoria & Albert’s, there’s a lot to cover.
First, what we consider to be the most controversial news. WDWNT is reporting that Walt Disney World will be extending the FastPass+ 60-day booking window perk to multiple Walt Disney World Good Neighbor Hotels, including the 7 Disney Springs Resort Area Hotels.
Since the debut of FastPass+, this has been one of the bigger perks to incentivize guests to stay on-site. Without this 60-day booking window, it’s nearly impossible to score Frozen Ever After, Flight of Passage, Seven Dwarfs Mine Train, and other coveted FastPasses. (Unless you’re diligent about looking for last-minute cancellations.)
This rumor has been met with agitated responses by many Walt Disney World fans. For people who stay on-site regularly, this dilutes the value of their perks, and adds more competition for those hard-to-get FastPasses. Likewise, Annual Passholders have expressed frustration that their loyalty is not being rewarded.
These reactions are understandable. At the same time, we think the key word in this is incentivize. Walt Disney World offers on-site guests certain perks to incentivize them to stay on-site. In our Free Dining posts, we repeat over and over that Disney does not do offer anything out of corporate benevolence.
Just like that discount is only offered to boost the occupancy rate and prevent hotel rooms from going unsold, “free” perks are only offered because they in some way benefit Disney. In the case of Extra Magic Hours or the longer FastPass+ booking window, it’s a carrot to encourage staying on-site. With something like Disney’s Magical Express, the goal is to maintain a captive audience by discouraging rental cars. There is no such thing as a free lunch–it’s all done with the end goal of benefiting Disney.
Recently, Walt Disney World has seen its occupancy rate creep up. Just go to DisneyWorld.com and try to book a room through the end of this year–you’ll find very slim pickings. Simply put, with occupancy rates this high, Disney does not need to incentivize people to book. Those rooms will sell even without the perks. (And potentially, without discounts.)
While this high occupancy rate will not continue unabated (expect normal early 2018 lulls), it is expected to become the ‘new normal’ as Toy Story Land, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge, and other projects start to open. As that happens, some visitors to Walt Disney World will necessarily have to stay off-site due to a lack of on-site room inventory.
In such a scenario, Walt Disney World does have a compelling interest in incentivizing people to stay in the Disney Springs Resort Area as opposed to more remote off-site hotels. Even though these are third party hotels, they are all within walking distance of Disney Springs, which is very lucrative for Disney.
Filling up hotel rooms–even ones not owned by Disney–that are a stone’s throw from Disney Springs is absolutely beneficial to Disney. (Beyond that, who knows what kind of deal was cut between Disney and these hotels; the hotels might be paying Disney for this perk.)
As for Annual Passholders…we should increasingly expect to be Walt Disney World’s lowest priority. There are times when the AP demographic is beneficial to Disney, such as off-season weekends during Festival of the Arts or when looking to fill tables at less-popular restaurants. When it comes to FastPass+, though, there is little business rationale for offering an expanded window.
Next up, the most exciting rumor. It’s been over a year since the OC Register reported that a new, 700-room luxury hotel would be added to Disneyland Resort on the north end of the Downtown Disney parking lot. Since then, no new information has been released about this hotel. Many fans (us included) assumed was due to disputes between Anaheim and Disney.
It turns out that Disney has been retooling this project, with a different design for the hotel and a different location. The hotel is now slated to be built between Downtown Disney and Disneyland Hotel, that would replace much of the existing Downtown Disney (including AMC, Rainforest Cafe, and ESPN Zone).
As with the previously-announced concept, this will consist of 700 hotel rooms, have rooftop dining, and other amenities. Also like that, this project will meet the parameters for AAA four-diamond status. However, it will also have a Disney Vacation Club wing with 125 rooms, and direct access to the monorail.
This concept is also much more sprawling and has an open concept conducive to foot traffic between Disneyland Hotel and Downtown Disney. The new design also has multiple, smaller wings as opposed to a taller tower. Based upon the concept art we’ve seen, it has a lovely modern vibe, and we’d assume this same type of aesthetic reboot will be applied to Downtown Disney, as well. While this hotel is still in development, the tentative opening target is 2021 (same as the previously-announced luxury hotel).
UPDATE: Disneyland has released details and concept art (pictured above) of the previously-rumored luxury hotel. Conspicuously absent from the released concept art is the DVC wing, which would be on the Paradise Pier Hotel side of the development. We’re unsure whether the DVC wing has been cut from the project or is just not ready to be announced (we’re guessing the latter).
It’s been a while since Walt Disney World quietly confirmed that four Club 33 locations will be added, with one going into each of the Florida parks. The locations will be themed to the travels of Lillian and Walt Disney, and we previously speculated that these locations would more likely be intimate settings–perhaps lounges.
Since then, speculation has abounded about where they’d go. When the Chase Lounge did not reappear at the 2017 Epcot International Food & Wine Festival, many assumed it was because Club 33 work was occurring there. (Although that park now has a surplus of empty corporate lounges, so there’s no shortage of potential locations.)
Now, BlogMickey is reporting that work is occurring in Magic Kingdom at Adventureland Veranda. For years, rumors persisted that this would become a Club 33 location, but those rumors pretty much fizzled out when Skipper Canteen opened. It’s still unknown where these locations will be added, but since nothing has yet to leak out, we’re guessing that the original target opening of Fall 2017 is no longer the plan. (Perhaps Spring 2018?)
In some exciting news, Victoria & Albert’s was once again named the #2 restaurant in the United States by TripAdvisor. We dined at Victoria & Albert’s way back during our Walt Disney World honeymoon, and to this day it remains our favorite meal we’ve ever had. In fairness, we are not ‘high society’ folks who try the trendiest haute cuisine, but we’ve dined at a number of nice restaurants in major city (including Merriman’s, #10 on that same list), and we still haven’t had anything that beats V&A’s.
Even with higher price points, it’s still a restaurant we really want to revisit, and would recommend it to anyone wanting to do a nice special occasion meal–without any hesitation. You can read our full Victoria & Albert’s Review and see photos of our meal here.
Next up, Walt Disney World released concept art for the NBA Experience, and an opening date (timeframe) of Summer 2019. The design is supposed to evoke “modern architecture of new NBA arenas around the country.” I’m not sure how this fits into the style and elaborate backstory of Disney Springs, but I think we can set that aside for now.
I’m still curious as to whether this will find an audience. While I still would’ve preferred an original concept from Disney (something that could’ve fit the bill as a “niche 5th gate”), I have to admit that this is growing on me. I only have casual interest in the NBA, so this is not going to be a big deal for me, but I hope it is done well. At the very least, the exterior is better than the ‘big box retailer’ look of DisneyQuest.
Alright, that’s it for this week. We’ll return next week! (…Or whenever there’s enough news to justify another post like this.)
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Your Thoughts
What do you think of these news & rumors? Are you in favor of or against an expansion of perks to WDW Good Neighbor Hotels? Thoughts on a luxury hotel replacing part of Downtown Disney in California? Any questions about any of the other news? We love hearing from readers, so please share some of your favorite items for travel, or any other thoughts or questions you have, in the comments
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In October, good FP+ were hard to come by even at 60+ days. Having several thousand more guests likely won’t help that! Alas.
I set my alarm to alert me to the 60 day window for a fastpass for the new Pandora ride and it was not available when I tried at 10am that day! Not much of a system if you can NEVER get a fastpass.
We couldn’t Fast Pass it in August either. AK was open late & lots of guests were arriving later so the lines got longer. We rode Navi River Ride twice & will have to wait til next trip for the other.
I totally agree giving thousands more people access to early FP booking is definitely not a good idea when we can’t even get the FPs we want now 60 days out and staying at a Disney resort.
Well still can’t see any older comments. When I hit the older comments it actually changed from 29 comments to 3 at the top of article and can only see 3 comments. System is jacked up!
Same here.
That’s been happening to me for a while now. I’m glad I’m not the only one!
I wonder if there being very few rooms available has to do with the hurricane and people being able to rebook for another time. My nephew and his wife had a trip planned for the week of the hurricane and rescheduled for December. Just a thought!
The full hotels has really had me dumbfounded. I’ve been trying to find a room for the November 10-12 for MONTHS and there was nothing. What was especially strange was that there seemed to be more rooms available for Christmas or thanksgiving than this weekend. I live in Florida and try and go several times a year and I’ve never had this problem. I was starting to think there was something wrong with the system or that there were groups holding really big blocks but still there are only one or two resorts with ANY availability that weekend. I just don’t see how it compares le be this full since August when the holiday weeks still have availability.
My guess, being from NJ, is that the NJ Teacher’s Convention takes place that week & many schools are closed for part of that week….. hence Jersey Week at Disney!
We had no problem getting rooms for Jersey Week last year, when both my child and my wife had the entire week off (usually, it is “only” a 4 day weekend).
Even with Jersey Week it didn’t make much sense to me that there was more availability during Thanksgiving when ALL schools are out and crowds are high. I just couldn’t believe that everything was booked up more than 5 months out for a weekend in early November. Oh well!
Thanks for always keeping us up do date, we couldnt’ learn about all these new things without you! Would love it if you could show a map when you talk about the new hotel, etc. I wonder if there will eventually be a hotel on the north end of the park with a direct entry near Star Wars or Toon Town to take the pressure off the main gate?
before heading to WDW on Oct 9th I had signed up for several Disney newsletters including yours as well as getting a book on how to see WDW with a child and in my case my 9 year old niece. I read everything I could get my hands on but cannot recall where I read that when checking out of our hotel I should ask about getting reimbursed for unused meals on our deluxe dining plan. I inquired about this at check out on the 17th because I know we did have several meals that we didn’t use. I was promptly told that WDW does not reimburse meals, its a use it or lose it type of thing. Was I misinformed or was the check out clerk wrong?
You were misinformed. Dining plan credits that are unused expire at midnight the day of checkout, and you are not entitled to any form of reimbursement. The dining plan is never worth purchasing unless you are certain you will use all your entitlements prior to departure!
If ESPN zone and rainforest is gone from downtown so will I along with my AP. We really don’t need another $600 a night tower
Do you have any thoughts or insight about runDisney putting all west coast Disneyland races on “indefinite” (perhaps permanent) hiatus? Not sure how the construction issues necessitate getting rid of all the races altogether?! I’m glad I got in my one Coast-to-Coast challenge last year!
Even if the I wonder if Disney gets a cut of the gross revenue from the Disney Springs hotels? If so, Disney could be benefiting from this change from higher occupancy even if the hotels didn’t explicitly pay for the 60-day FP+ booking window.
Also another realistic possibility!
Any news on what is replacing La Nouba?
Cirque has been strangely silent about it, but my understanding is (and this information is now very old) that it’ll be another Cirque show. Very possible that something has changed, and that’s no longer the plan, but that was the last I heard.
NBA Experience? Sounds boring! Wish they had just overhauled Disney Quest instead, made it more relevant/modern. Or put in a big indoor park with climbing walls/structures, trampolines, etc, someplace to burn off steam on bad weather days. Hope they keep AMC theater at Disney Springs. Catch a movie there every trip, nice break from the parks/crowds.
Yes! I think that would be such a hit with WDW visitors. I’m really shocked they haven’t tried something like this yet.
I for one will be really disappointed to see DTD become a hotel (loss of amc/ESPN club/etc). How likely is this as the retail entertainment section of DTD really seems under attack.
The hotel is very much mixed use, so you’ll see restaurants and shopping added in it. Granted, there won’t be anything as large as a movie theater or ESPN Zone, though.
Overall, I think the long-term vision for Downtown Disney at Disneyland is a positive one. There are some good things coming…
I wonder if the fact that two of the 5 “value” resorts potentially charging much more once the gondola system opens, leaves a lot of budget travelers without on-site accommodations. Instead of this demographic choosing not to come at all, Disney has decided to throw a bone to these off site hotels with the thought that people on a budget will still come then and stay off site at a good neighbor hotel offering fast pass +. I always stay on site, but if the price is right, I could see it being an option down the road for quick short wknd trips.
I want more details on the club 33!
I am not understanding why one in each park myself but you know Disney all about making cash.
My opinion only Majic Kingdon location should be done. But who is listening to me.
Now to the big question is this going to be a members system like in California or are they going to open this to the masses and let anyone in?
4 locations seems less exclusixe to me and let’s me think they will drop this to everyone and stick it with 180 day booking period as other Disney restaurants.
I could be Wong but follow the money!! Disney is not trying to make an exclusive club is my bet. I am thinking they are using the exclusivity of club 33 in California to open 4 in Orlando to anyone and pack them out! Please don’t let them use dining plan there if they do!!!! Has ruined higher end restaurants in Disney for myself!
David,I TOTALLY AGREE with you, having the opportunity to dine at club 33 once it was very special, and that’s a once in a lifetime experience.
Regarding occupancy rates, I’ve noticed this too (the Swan and Dolphin is hard to find for less than $200 a night, and I have frequently seen it for $110 before). On top of this, the Swan and Dolphin used to waive its Resort Fee for members of their loyalty program, and this ended recently. But simultaneously, and this is the weird bit, offsite hotels seem to have had a massive slump in price. I’m currently at a really nice place right on the WDW boundary, with no parking charges, no Resort Fee and free breakfast, reserved for $74 a night, and various incentives and rewards bring the net effective cost down to about $61. Now, I’m one of the biggest proponents for staying on site, but for that sort of saving even I will give up my principles. I wonder if the “you must stay on site” bloggers have been a little too successful? 😉
I don’t understand the FP+ window fury – apart from three attractions, it isn’t needed. I book mine the night before. And I say that as a pretty frequent-visiting annual passholder.
I’m very interested to see the pricing for Copycat 33. It really doesn’t seem to me that Orlando has the market to be able to charge $20,000+ and annual fees of $10,000+ in the way the California region does. I wonder if this will be the first Club 33 with renewal fees under $1,000? (Which would still be too much for me, but…).
I consider myself a sports fan, with some interest in basketball, but this NBA Experience does not interest me at all. I’m talking zero point zero percent. Almost anything would be better in that space.
I’m not interested in it either. I’m not even sure what it’s supposed to actually be. Most likely a giant store. I don’t take my family to Disney to shop, I take them for entertainment and family time. More of more of Disney Springs is just high-end stores that I’m not interested in and less of anything at all for kids to do there other than the Lego store and maybe a candy store. I miss Disney Quest.
Decreasing Fastpass availability is good for WHO ???
Certainly not good for on-site guests. My commentary here is more in response to people saying, “this is a big mistake, Disney!” It might be an unfriendly move towards on-site guests, but from Disney’s perspective, it’s no “mistake.” It’s a calculated, savvy business move.
Disney has been playing this game with Disneyland AP holders for a long time. Disney has to make room for guests on that once in a lifetime trip. They spend more money then AP holders would in that same time periods. AP holders are good for recurring revenue and brand loyalty but right now Disney has more profitable angles.
Not if it results in guests deciding NOT to pay the premium to stay at a resort, and deciding to stay off site instead.
I have to wonder…how did Disney miss the news of Universal’s NBA City restaurant closing for Toothsome a few years back and think that there is still a “need” to be filled here? Curiouser and curiouser…
Yeah, I wonder what the full story is with the Universal situation…
More details on the new hotel design, please!
That’s about all I can say at this point. 🙁
I know it doesn’t help much, but we really like the exterior design (I haven’t seen anything inside). While I wouldn’t say it looks like an organic design, it has a certain ‘flow’ to it, and nails the modern/contemporary aesthetic. Should be a nice addition to Disneyland Resort!
Intriguing especially since DVC members have long believed there would be another DVC property there.
Overall it is good news.