The End of Disneyland as a “Local’s Park”
Disney has been touting Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge as a huge expansion to Disneyland, and that’s unquestionably true. It will also fundamentally alter the nature and drawing power of the park. While this addition is sure to be an immense draw, it’s an immense draw containing two attractions with a combined hourly capacity of 3,000 to 4,000 guests. Even assuming lengthy queues and the space in the land itself to absorb crowds, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge adds maybe around 15,000 guests to Disneyland’s capacity.
These are rough, hypothetical numbers, but the point stands that this land is going to cause a huge spike in guest demand. Unless Star Wars: Episode VIII The Last Jedi is a biopic about Jar Jar Binks that kills off literally every other character in the Star Wars Universe, that added demand for Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge is going to far outweigh the modest increase in capacity. I don’t think anyone would dispute this–the only question is, “by how much?”
My guess: by a lot. In fact, I’d argue that both this and the upcoming(?) Marvel Land will do more to draw guests to Disneyland Resort than they will to help absorb crowds. There’s excitement in the air among Disneyland locals about the future, but I would posit that this enthusiasm is not totally grounded in reality. Come 2019, reality will set in. Locals will have one of those epiphanic moments, realizing To Serve Man is actually a cookbook, and they’ll have to come to terms with the implications of this all…
To put it succinctly, Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge will irreversibly alter Disneyland. It will transform from a local’s park that generations of Southern Californians have grown up attending regularly, to a bona fide destination that caters primarily to tourists. For the reasons laid out in this article, Disneyland can no longer have it both ways.
In fairness, catering primarily to tourists has been the goal for a while. In February 2001, Disneyland suspended Annual Pass sales for the first time, citing concerns “that the highly anticipated opening of its neighboring park may lead to overcrowding.” Obviously, we all know how Disney’s California Adventure flopped hard when it opened, so that fear of overcrowding seems laughable now.
What’s not so laughable is the turnaround of Disneyland Resort’s second gate in the last 5 years, and how those 2001 expectations of Disneyland and DCA becoming a ‘destination resort’ have finally been realized thanks to Cars Land and other unique, large scale draws.
Between rising average hotel prices (plus an under-supply of hotel rooms) and rising Annual Pass prices to cull the herd, so to speak, the writing has been on the wall. Disneyland Resort is becoming a vacation destination unto itself, effectively the Walt Disney World of the West Coast.
The biggest difference between Walt Disney World and Disneyland from this perspective? Infrastructure. While Florida cannot absorb unlimited crowds, it is far better equipped to handle locals and tourists alike. For starters, Walt Disney World has four parks to absorb guests, plus a plethora of hotels, other entertainment, and a veritable sea of parking lots.
Disneyland Resort has two parks, the more popular of which was built over six decades ago in a totally different era. Anaheim’s parks don’t just lack the space to accommodate guests within the parks, they lack the space outside. There are not enough hotels, alternative entertainment, and (most significantly) parking.
To compound matters, the population of Central Florida is around 9 million, and a good chunk of that is probably shirtless ‘Florida Man’ types who do not meet the dress code for the parks, anyway. By contrast, the collective population of Los Angeles and Orange Counties is 14 million.
While the population gap is only around 5 million people, there’s also a cultural difference and attitude towards Disney. In Florida, Disney is begrudgingly accepted as the region’s largest employer, a ‘machine’ for extracting revenue out of tourists. In California, Disneyland is still regarded as Walt Disney’s original magic kingdom, and is a cultural institution. Generally speaking, those 14 million people have a greater affinity for Disney.
This much is reflected in the enormous Annual Passholder population, which dwarfs that of the Florida parks. While Disney does not release Annual Passholder numbers for either park, it has long been rumored that Disneyland crossed the 1 million mark several years ago. Depending upon the blockouts, it’s a reasonable possibility that APs could account for over 25% of guests in the parks on any given day.
In addition to the army of existing Annual Passholders, these local numbers mean there’s a huge guest pool for Disneyland. Once you throw San Diego and other areas into the mix within a reasonable driving distance of Disneyland, you have around 20 million potential guests.
All of this is to say that there’s a lot of potential local demand for Disneyland, even before you consider the demand from other states in the West. While most Disneyland Resort guests come from somewhere in California, people travel from other states, as well. Utah and Nevada are chief among these, with Oregon, Texas, Arizona, New Mexico, and Washington also heavily represented.
Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge will open in California before it opens in Florida, likely by 6 months to a year. This means that any diehard Star Wars fans–no matter where they’re located–will also be considering a Disney Resort vacation in 2019. In other words, there’s a huge potential pool of guests for Disneyland Resort in the immediate future.
The guest pool is one part of the problem. As we hinted at above, infrastructure is also an issue, in addition to park capacity. The first problem in terms of infrastructure is hotel rooms. Right now, there are not enough to satisfy peak season guest demand, a fact that is evidenced by the average price in hotel rooms eclipsing $180/night last year. (No doubt that number is even higher this year.)
You might think this is not a huge issue, because cities around Anaheim have hotels, and people can stay farther away and commute to the parks. That’s true. The problem this presents is that it further taxes Anaheim’s overtaxed surface roads and I-5, as well as Disneyland’s parking.
That brings us to the largest problem in terms of infrastructure: the parking situation. Even on a busy day right now, it can be awful. Remember the 24-hour parties? Every time, Disneyland incentivized carpooling with free buttons (lol), which was (surprise!) totally ineffective as traffic still backed up terribly onto I-5 and the surface streets throughout Anaheim.
No big deal, you might think, recalling the Eastern Gateway Project that was announced last year, and will be opened by late 2018. Unfortunately, due to a changing political climate, that has yet to be approved by the Anaheim City Council, and there’s a good possibility it won’t be approved this year.
The Eastern Gateway Project has been part of Disneyland’s Master Plan since before Disney California Adventure, and its repeated delays are emblematic of the issues that arise when President of Disneyland is a stepping-stone position only held for a few years by each occupant of the role. Knowing their tenure is limited and infrastructure projects are not ‘sexy,’ parking has been a game of kick the can for the last several leadership teams.
Some of the blame with the Eastern Gateway Project’s delay lies with Disney officials. They had over a decade to get this built, and could have been proactive when the political climate was right to get the project done. More recently, they’ve also failed to revise their plans to address concerns of local businesses and elected officials. They’ve had zero sense of urgency with regard to a project that urgently needs to begin construction.
Blame also lies with Anaheim. Both the City Council and Mayor have recently become openly adversarial to Disney. One City Council member recently was quoted as saying,“we’ve invested in the children of tourists, it’s time to invest in the children of Anaheim.”
Never mind the fact that Anaheim has an annual $80 million tax surplus due to the Anaheim Resort District, which helps fund programs that can benefit actual residents. It’s much easier to use the city’s largest source of tax revenue as a scapegoat for problems the city faces. While the City of Anaheim has been overly Disney-friendly for a while, the recent sea change is an overreaction to that, and will have its own negative, long-term impacts.
But I digress; this article is not about the politics of Anaheim. Even if the Eastern Gateway Project is approved, it’s already too late for this to open in time for Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge. What does that mean? No one’s really sure–probably not even Team Disney Anaheim’s own planning team. One thing that cannot happen is a daily redux of the 24-hour party traffic jams. Disney did just get approval yesterday for a Toy Story Lot expansion, but that’s a paltry 455 parking spaces as compared to the 6,800 spaces the Eastern Gateway parking structure would add.
The most likely scenario is that Disneyland will be forced to do all it can to discourage vehicle use. There are two ways to accomplish this. The first is to raise parking costs. The second is to eliminate parking from Annual Passes. This step has already been taken for the lower tiers of passes, and it seems like an inevitability for all Annual Passes, save for perhaps the Signature Plus tier. This is just the first of much larger implications for Annual Passholders…
Basically, all of this is a roundabout way of saying that Disneyland Resort is going to have a tremendous amount of potential guest demand come 2019, without the infrastructure and capacity to satisfy that demand. Effectively, this means that Disneyland will be able to pick and choose the demographics to whom it would rather cater, and its management will no doubt choose those guests who are likely spend the most money.
It’s no secret that, on average, tourists spend more money per visit than locals, particularly local Annual Passholders. Vacation guests will be Disneyland’s top priority, with whatever capacity and infrastructure supply is ‘left over’ from them being ‘distributed’ to locals. Whether this means a suspension of all Annual Pass sales remains to be seen.
If I had to guess, my hunch is that sales of the two lower tiers of Annual Passes will be suspended indefinitely and the Deluxe Annual Pass will continue to be offered but with much more aggressive blockout dates. If any Annual Pass remains available without blockout dates, I would expect its price to top $1,500.
It wouldn’t even remotely surprise me if any Annual Passes that might be offered are blocked out for the first three months that Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge is open. If someone is willing to fork over $1,500 for an Annual Pass, chances are that they’ll fork over another $150 for a day ticket to experience Star Wars land earlier.
To be honest, not all of the aspects of this paradigm shift are necessarily bad things. Even as a local, I can recognize that Disneyland has a problem with us Annual Passholders. We arrive with 1-2 guests per vehicle, show up for a handful of hours at a time, wander around taking pictures of ourselves in front of walls, don’t buy anything, and often bring our own food or avoid doing meals in the parks. The “Passhole” stereotypes exist because they are, in large part, accurate. For locals, Disneyland has become a glorified public park or mall. Disneyland should be a special place–it shouldn’t be mentioned in the same breath as the Grove for things to do on a Friday night.
With that said, I maintain that it was a mistake for Disney to locate Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge in Disneyland rather than making it the cornerstone offering in a third gate. I think it will be borne out that this wasn’t the “conservative” approach once the land opens–it was the foolishly risk-averse approach. The subsequent failures to add people-eating capacity in Disneyland to help absorb crowds, compelling counter-programming in Disney California Adventure to draw the hordes of people away from the 60+ year old park, and address infrastructure shortcomings will all be evident once Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge opens. Disney will undoubtedly point to the crushing demand as proof of the land’s unforeseeable success, but the chaos that will occur in 2019 is easily foreseeable to anyone with their eyes open.
If you’re preparing for a Disneyland trip, check out our other planning posts, including how to save money on Disneyland tickets, our Disney packing tips, tips for booking a hotel (off-site or on-site), where to dine, and a number of other things, check out our comprehensive Disneyland Vacation Planning Guide!
Your Thoughts
What do you think about Disneyland’s future with regard to tourists v. locals? Do you see this as a long-term paradigm shift, or something temporary during the initial surge of popularity for Star Wars: Galaxy’s Edge? Thoughts on the parking and hotel situation in Anaheim? Any questions? Hearing feedback about your experiences is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts or questions below in the comments!
Just out of curiosity, I used one of those “population within the radius of a point” online map tools to get a more exact measure of how many people live close to each of the resorts.
Within 40 miles of Disney World, there are about 2 million people. Within the same radius of Disneyland, there are almost 13 million. So, six times more people who could potentially be frequent-visit passholders. They are also presumably wealthier than Orlando residents.
So, yeah, I agree that the Disneyland passholders can expect more steep price increases and/or loss of benefits once this thing opens.
13 v. 2 million seems more reasonable than the numbers I found. (I was a bit surprised by those, myself). I’d also agree that there’s more wealth in SoCal. Then again, everything is more expensive in California, so maybe difference in disposable income among the middle class audience that Disney targets is not really that different?
I find this locals vs tourists discussion funny-strange. I have unfortunately never been to California and perhaps am still living in the 1950s-1960’s, but I thought Disneyland was a tourist destination from the beginning. Didn’t Walt go on television every week and build huge national demand? Didn’t families travel cross country just to visit? I know this may have changed when Disney World opened because it Now receives all the national attention and is perceived as “better” and because it is obviously much easier to get to for most of the US population. But For me, personally, Disneyland will always be a tourist destination, and I too am dismayed by all of the reports of it being over-run by locals.
I’m guessing that you’re correct that demographics shifted once Walt Disney World opened. I think most nationwide marketing efforts for the last couple of decades have been aimed at WDW, whereas DLR receives regional ads in California, Utah, etc.
FWIW, I wouldn’t go as far as to say Disneyland is “over-run by locals.”
I consider it MY local park, having had an annual pass since since 2001 when California Adventure opened. I LOVE California Adventure by the way!
I know it’san old common ccomplaint, but there is just too much similarity between the resorts. It appears to be getting worse. So do I buy 4 passes for my family, and deal with crowds and parking, or use that money for a WDW (or other) vacation?
Use it for a WDW vacation!
We would love to visit Disneyland from our home in New York but if we end up stuck in lines and only get a partial experience it would end up being more frustrating than pleasurable. I understand locals resenting outsiders trespassing at their exclusive territory. However when people visit your venerable turf, shouldn’t you recognize that their time is precious and allow them some priority at the table? It’s too bad because we really want to visit the original Disneyland which Tom makes so alluring while simultaneously scaring the pooh out of us,..
“I understand locals resenting outsiders trespassing at their exclusive territory.”
I really don’t think this is the case, and hope I’ve not presented it as such. Most locals I know want tourists to visit Disneyland, both because it’s a great park, and because of the tourism dollars you bring to the region.
In the past few years, Disneyland has started to implement steps to advantage tourists and make their experience better. I’d only expect more of that going forward.
Oh, I never meant to suggest that there is any special case there apart from the mentality that generally exists around all treasured local spots, as with a favorite undiscovered swimming hole. The avoidance of crowds, as in crowd calendars, is a manifestation of this tendency to want to keep something good to ourselves. I really meant to say that local pass holders have the luxury of showing up and leaving if it’s too crowded and saving it for another day while tourists have taken a gamble on getting lucky during their limited visitation span. .
If you can visit the park during the months that it is the least busiest like February or may or September and go in the middle of the week you will have a much better experience! If you time it right you can end up with wait times for rides 20 minutes or less instead of 4 hours like it can be at peak season.
I had an AP for 2 years from April 2015 to March 2017 and parking was always frustrating. I live halfway between the beach and the parks, so surface streets are my most direct route, usually coming north on West Street. Many times I would head up West an hour after park opening to make the U-turn at Ball to get into Mickey & Friends structure, only to find it already blocked off. If they had a better sign system informing drivers of which parking areas were closed and open, it would help alleviate some traffic. I have also driven along Ball and seen the huge line of unsuspecting people waiting to make a left into a closed parking structure. Signs on the northbound 5 directing people exiting Harbor to go to the open Toy Story lot would help.
Totally agree. We were once re-routed and ended up spending an extra 45 minutes trying to park–time that could’ve been saved if there were better signage on I-5.
I am one of those tourists who love to visit Disneyland. The first time my husband and I ever went to Disneyland was when we were dating and now we’re excited about going this November with our two kids for thier second visit! We are all huge Star Wars fans but we want to go back before the new land opens because I know it will be crazy once it does. We were there three years ago right after Thanksgiving and it was a great week, short lines, good weather with a bit of rain which helped with the crowds and a great not too busy first trip for my boys. I really hope this year’s trip is the same but I’m expecting more crowds, we’re definitely paying more for hotel this time and our Canadian dollar isn’t worth as much…..but we’ll be at the happiest place on earth!!
We are one of the demographics not mentioned – regular visitors from New Zealand. We have visited DL every second year since 2009, including one two-coasts trip to WDW and DL in 2013. It is a 12-hour flight from NZ so when we come we stay long – 2011 trip we got one of much-missed 14 day passes and surprised even ourselves by visiting the parks everyone of those days! We are big Star Wars fans but at this stage will wait and see how things shake down before committing to a 2019 trip. We really noticed our regular accom prices (Hojo) jumped after the opening of Carsland so a bit scared as to how Star Wars will affect those too…
“don’t buy anything, and often bring our own food or avoid doing meals in the parks. The “Passhole” stereotypes exist because they are, in large part, accurate. ”
I disagree strongly. Every AP holder I know spends quite a bit per trip, and we bend over backwards to be extra friendly to Cast Members and to first timers. We also stay the whole day. And we live only a hour away.
I know YOU spend money there. Are you, Tom, or your lovely wife “passholes”? I doubt that very strongly.
I know very few people, personally, who are like that and I believe you and your friends aren’t like that. However, observationally and in interactions with Cast Member friends, I’ve come to believe that there are plenty of “passholes” out there. Even if it’s only 5% of APs, that’s too many. (One bad apple…)
I think it’s mostly just people jealous of those that can come so often. Sure, some people are assholes, but AP or first-timer, it’s the same people who are assholes.
And yes, some CMs think that APs= crowds 9some truth in that but with blackout days not so much) and thus they have to work harder.
sure. But they forget that in the pre-AP days, DL was closed Mondays and Tuesdays (except Summer) and closed early on Weds, Thurs & Sunday. So they might not have a job if it wasnt for AP holders.
I agree with the Passhole stereotype existing – and this is coming from a long-distance pass holder. I had an observation while in the parks last month leading into D23: It was busy, but the crowds seemed somehow different. Attitudes seemed a little on the lighter side. It was subtle, but noticeable. The biggest thing I noticed was during parades/fireworks/Fantasmic when you have Cast Members trying to keep a defined flow and direction to the crowd traffic. People were actually listening to the CMs! I’ve grown so accustomed to people just barging through lines of CMs trying to direct traffic that I noticed the change straight away. It took a few days to realize that it was likely because the low-tier passes were blocked out, but holy cow what a difference it made in the atmosphere around the park.
As a former CM the “….so they might not have a job,” comment is one of the worst to hear. It falls in line with the “i pay your salary,” comment that i heard far too often. Comments like that come across as a sense of entitlement, i.e “i pay your salary so you have to listen to me.” I understand Dan that it may not have been your intention with that comment but as a former CM that’s how I could interpret it.
When i was a CM passholes tended to be the most vocal of the APs. Far too often they’d barge in with that sense of entitlement and demanding attitude, always quick to point out how we were doing the job wrong and how they could do it better. I’m aware it’s not all AP’s that are like that. I have very good friends today who are APs and they are quite far removed from the passhole tag. It’s just the passholes stood out more as they were more vocal.
I’m a passholder, and I have seen “passhole” behavior too many times to mention. It comes predominantly from people who go to the parks every day, or nearly every day.
Another excellent article. Disney has WANTED this change for a long time, but as you said, they kicked the can down the street too long. They knew they needed at least another parking structure a decade ago, in addition to Mickey and Friends, but chose not to. Here’s something else that your article made me think of- what if Disney DOES push Disneyland as a destination really strongly between now and Galaxy’s Edge opening, and people arriving are turned off by things not being what they had expected? I know plenty of people who used to visit DL weekly, and now spend their time and money at USH. Disney can do just fine with that, but if they turn off the tourists, it could be disastrous.
Disneyland has to do something to keep the tourists coming in and shoulder to shoulder crowds with expensive ‘on property’ hotels that have long walks aren’t going to cut it.
The last time we were leaving the the Grand Californian the young woman checking us out said “there you go Mr. *** and we are looking forward to your next visit (we use to go there a lot)” at which point I told her “thanks but that we wouldn’t be coming back again” she asked if there was anything she could do and I simply told her that with the crowds in the park(s) along with the high prices for the hotel and eating the personal discomfort and monetary costs were just too high. Over the years we’ve become friends with a lot of other people that prefer to stay on property and most of us have switched to the Disney cruises, WDW or Disneyland Paris!
As for AP holders, go to Facebook and everyone who gets the low cost passes will tell you that Disney won’t block them because the are the bread and butter of Disneyland. Many also claim they spend just as much or more than the tourists and regularly spend hundreds on food and ‘stuff’ most visits, of course you won’t get an answer when you ask why they get the cheapest AP’s and pay monthly for their passes…
To me Disneyland has to make a choice, are they going to be a ‘premier’ resort or fight for the locals with Knott’s, Universal or Magic Mountain because a lot of tourists will start pushing back at paying top dollar for access and rooms while ‘locals’ get in and crowd everyone else out while paying only a few dollars a day.
I remember a while back hearing a CM referring to someone as a ‘Passhole’ for demanding service because he had an AP. Now the level of entitlement for the local AP holders is way, way beyond this guy and I think it’s hurting the Disney brand with a lot of tourists!
I’m sad to lose my park.
Parking is a huge issue. The capacity issue though terrifies me. There are days where NOS, Adventureland and Fantasyland are painfully crowded already. I fear if crowds get much larger without places for those crowds to go, the park will become dangerous.
No more empty buildings, Disneyland. No restaurant can ever be closed again. Mickey and the Magical Map can never be dark on weekdays again. They have to be making every effort possible to manage the upcoming crowds and there appears to be little being done on this front right now. The park’s image will be tarnished if they don’t take this seriously.
As a longtime Disneyland local and Star Wars fanatic, 2019 has me terrified. I’m already sad about losing a quiet nighttime critter country and big thunder trail, I’m worried about all the problems with parking and the parking situation will only be worse if room is only available miles away… I could see a more extensive bus system working, but that’s only if Disney wants to be more friendly with non-disney hotels, or if the city is willing to spend more money on the resort, neither of which sound very likely.
I’ll be nostalgically sad if Disneyland becomes a place I can’t just hang out at on Friday nights to catch a ride and watch the steamboat go around, but the real worry about Disneyland becoming a “west-coast WDW” is a little more specific:
You mentioned in your Fantasmic 2.0 article (or maybe in the comments) that one of the reasons F! gets more updates in California might be due to the locals and their love for the show. Aside than F!, WDW seems to add new fireworks and parades, provide bands and street entertainment, use seasonal overlays, and update attractions and shows less often than Disneyland does (Though admittedly they are getting better). Obviously California is doing fine for now, but I’m worried that in the long-term a heavier tourist demographic at DL would mean California’s offerings become more stagnant…
One way to “thin the herd” of AP’s without eliminating the lower tiers would be to remove the monthly payment option. People that have no problem paying $97 down and $20-$31 per month will look at it differently if required to pay the whole $339 or $469 upfront. This is how they handle the Premier Passport and it’s never fun paying everything at once.
Hope you and I are still in the back of the line the next time we find out “It’s a cookbook”.
I can’t believe I forgot to mention the monthly payment option. Frankly, I’m surprised this still exists. I wouldn’t be shocked to see that eliminated this October. Seems like the most logical first step to reducing the AP population. (Aside from having your APs spayed or neutered! 😉 )
Spaying & Neutering is fine as long as they don’t cut off part of your ear like they do with the cats.
I dont see why they would want to reduce the AP population.
I’m an East Coaster with an allegiance to WDW, and for many of the obvious reasons. Every time I’ve been to DL though it was because I was in the area, usually San Diego or L.A. I’ve never made a specific DL oriented trip. Never spent more than one day at either park.
WDW, as overwhelming large as it is, has a lot to offer vacationers who want to hunker down in one hotel, and have the entire 27,000 acres (or however much is developed) to explore. DL does not have this going for it. Perhaps in a way it’s not fair to make such a comparison, but it’s all I’ve got.
I believe there are four types of Disney visitors…those who go to WDW because they like a one stop vacation, offering numerous hotels and restaurants; those who travel to DL because they happen to be passing through; local DL Annual Passholders who can actually afford the AP; and WDW Annual Passholders, who aren’t just Floridians, but come from all states. Each group has different expectations. If one were to analyze this information, I have no idea what they’d come up with, as there are way too many variables.
So, what I’ve learned from my own post and your article Tom, is that each coast will continue to make improvements as is warranted by the amount and type of guests each attracts, while having to deal with annoying local and state regulations.
Quite frankly, I’ve given myself a headache over what should (or could) be done. So I’ll quit while I’m ahead. Or perhaps it’s too late for that.
I wouldn’t disagree that those are four types of Disney visitors. I would disagree that the list is exhaustive–or even accounts for 50% of the visitors to Disneyland.
At minimum, you’re leaving off the following:
1. OC/LAC locals who are not APs
2. Californians outside of ‘day-trip’ range who are not APs
3. Residents of nearby states within driving distance for whom WDW is cost-prohibitive due to airfare
4. Conventioneers
5. Out of state Disney fans/enthusiasts
6. Out of state tourists debating between DLR/California or WDW/Florida
(I’m sure I’m still missing some demos–it’s not an exhaustive list.)
Setting aside all of the other groups, to your point, I think Star Wars Land makes Disneyland/California more attractive for #5 and #6. Not for everyone in those groups, but it at least moves the needle. Beyond that, it makes DLR more attractive for all 6 of those demos.
I realized I was omitting certain groups, but as I said, too many variables. My niece (who lives in Florida) is the only person I know who is willing to travel to DL from the east coast, and that’s because she lived in L.A. at one time and would often visit. I think she’d be quite shocked at how crowded and expensive it has become. Although, I believe she would enjoy it anyway. Probably for the same reason you offer regarding Star Wars. She’s a huge fan, and would tolerate the crowds for that reason alone. As for me, I’ll wait until she gets home to tell me about it.
I and my kids who have deluxe APs for DL live in Colorado. I love WDW and DL equally. DL has a charm and many better attractions and WDW has the vastness and Epcot. Even with the Avatar Land opened which I still contend will be unimpressive for me apart from FOP (hate the atmosphere in that movie, so I can’t imagine I’ll appreciate it in park form), I can’t see spending more than a day there and the Studios Park there was very underwhelming to me when I was there in 2015. It had a few good attractions but I was not impressed by the atmosphere there, that’ll probably change somewhat with Star Wars land opening but for now it is an extremely lame park compared to DCA. I can easily spend 5 to 6 days at DL resort at a time. Yes, I could spend more at WDW because I like to visit the hotels and their ammentities (and it takes longer to get around), but not that much more at a time. If I had to compare both castle parks, I really do like DL better than Magic Kingdom, but WDW has EPCOT which is maybe my favorite park, not because of World Show Case but because of Future World which is as about as unique as you can get. I know I’m in the minority but I love, love, love the atmosphere there. Anyway, next year we are going to get APs for WDW and plan on going 3 to 4 times depending on flight costs. Flying to Orange County in CA is really cheap for us and so we will have visited 7 to 8 times before our passes our up. Next year I will really miss Disneyland! Bigness doesn’t equal better (and neither does the amount of detail!!!!! no matter how well themed).
A Magic Express service might slightly reduce the need for parking. I hate having to rent a car at LAX, mostly because I hate driving in Southern California. Disney would be smart to have a free airport shuttle service; it might discourage tourists from renting a car at all and spend their entire vacation at Disneyland rather than driving to Universal Studios and other nearby attractions.
There’s the (paid) Disneyland Resort Express, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a free service comparable to Disney’s Magical Express if/when Disneyland has a few more hotels in the area (in which case, it’s a decade or so away). Or, if they started doing more comprehensive packages with the Good Neighbor hotels.
I hated the paid express from the airport, and you really notice the difference taking that (or the one in France) when you take magical express interest Florida. When I do WDW I assume getting to and from the resort will be stress free but internal transportation will be terrible. In Anaheim and Paris it’s the opposite.
Are they going to get marvel land open in time/with enough quality content to spread guests out and not just swamp the one park?
There’s zero chance Marvel Land will open by 2019. Something odd is going on with that project. I’m not sure if it’s riding on the Eastern Gateway or what, but there’s definitely something going on. It should’ve been formally announced–beyond vague statements that it’s going to happen–by now.
I think even the more casual Star Wars fans will be considering trips to Disneyland in 2019. My family is doing so and while we are definitely fans, we Would not categorize ourselves as die-hard. Although the consideration of the trip has also the result of reading the Bricker Ebook on SoCal. It Convinced me that there is something worth doing in the LA area other than Disney.
Oh yeah, I think Disneyland will be drawing guests far beyond Star Wars diehards. In terms of buzz, it should be on par with the first Wizarding World of Harry Potter at Universal Orlando. I think 2019-2020 will see a ton of interest in Disneyland from a variety of demographics.
that is an interesting analysis. This is one point that I’d disagree on, and that is that WDW is more equipped due to “other entertainment” (I’d agree on hotels, # of parks, etc.) Everyone I’ve known visiting Orlando form the midwest has been visiting for Disney, and perhaps a couple days at Orlando. Those that I have know going to Disneyland have been doing that as part of a larger trip to see LA, San Diego, the beach, etc.
Outside of the Disney bubble, there is unquestionably more to do in Southern California. Definitely a fair point. It’ll be interesting to see what percentage of the new tourists DLR draws are there for a Disney vacation, versus who is there for a SoCal vacation with Disneyland being a component of that.
I dont’ see it. DCA 2.0 didn’t do it. Cars Land didn’t do it. Why would a Star Wars land in DL turn DL into any less of a local’s park when in the same year the same land will open in DHS at WDW? No one’s going to cross the country to visit DL’s version when they can more easily visit WDW’s version. It’s more likely Galaxy’s Edge at DL will wring visits out of less-frequent long-distance visitors–i.e. from the Pacific NW, other west-of-Rockies states, and Australia.
I think there are more than just infrastructure issues in the way. My partner and I were longtime long-distance DL APs (first from NYC and then from Chicago.) We liked DL’s ambiance vs. WDW and didn’t really dig into cost or infrastructure differentials. We’re now WDW APs still living in Chicago. We changed “alliances” after George Kalogridis replaced Meg Crofton as WDW president. We made the decision primarily because we felt a palpable positive change in show after this management change.
But the real point is finally getting to experience and think about those differentials that we never thought about before, which on reflection make it challenging for us now to consider making a long-distance trip to DL again. Having to carry our own luggage and pay for our airport transfers. Having no affordable on-property hotel options. Having no other means of getting to the front gates from the farthest hotel rooms besides our feet (unless we’re heading for Tomorrowland via monorail, which still requires a walk from PPH or the back of DLH.) Still having no way to plan in advance our dining to the same degree that is available at WDW or our Fastpasses *at all.* (MAXPass is definitely aimed squarely at locals in this regard.)
When we finally started going to WDW over DL as long-distance visitors, all of this blew our minds. We’ve talked about going back to DL to see the new railroad and eventually to see Galaxy’s Edge. But the idea of no Magical Express, no MDE/Fastpass+, no convenient and universally available transportation, no affordable on-site hotels…we wince at the thought. And that’s coming from two people who used to love the Harbor Blvd. HoJo.
I love reading your blog, but sometimes I think because you’re so close to the issue and have the means to go so often, you forget what it’s like to experience WDW and DLR as a family on a tight budget who really has to balance vacation bang for their limited bucks. DL’s Star Wars land might get some curious visitors to cross the Rockies and visit. But I just have a hard time believing that many of them, if they’re already familiar with how WDW literally caters to long-distance guests, would not be shocked that so many familiar elements of the east coast Disney experience–in terms of long-distance guest supportive infrastructure and services–don’t exist in Anaheim.
We miss DL. But not enough to cross Harbor every day, pay $350 a night just to stay on property, have almost no way to do 21st-century advance trip planning, or drag our luggage and pay for airport transfers. It all comes off as making long-distance guests pay more for a lower quality of experience than they can receive at WDW. A Star Wars land at DL won’t change that. A west-coast DME, an affordable on-site hotel, and a MAXPass system that’s not frankly insulting to long-distance guests would.
But Bob Iger is never going to spend that kind of money in Anaheim to cater to guests of lesser means. And until that changes, I can’t see how DLR ever gets on the radar screen of east-of-Rockies guests to convert them to regular visitors.
“I dont’ see it. DCA 2.0 didn’t do it. Cars Land didn’t do it.”
There’s a lot to your comment, but I’m going to focus on the first sentence. I’d argue that Cars Land is exactly what started this trend. If you look at hotel prices in the last five years, they have increased precipitously (almost DOUBLED!) and during that same time, the Anaheim Resort District has added over 3,000 rooms to its inventory.
Meanwhile, Annual Pass tiers were suspended and other AP prices were hiked dramatically. Demographics have already started shifting…
Very good points. And I’m a long-time DL fan in CA.
A few counter arguments in the grand AP vs Tourist debate…
1 – I predicted that when fastpass+ came to DL, it would be a passholders’ dream come true – they would have access to evening return times without having to be in the park. (Actually, pass holders at WDW seem to hate it, but I can’t think why). In practice, DL’s closest cousin (MaxPass) has implemented an entry check before FP’s can be acquired. Clearly this wasn’t a mistake – and the result hugely benefits tourists who (naturally) arrive early. This system can easily be further tweaked to ensure DL’s premium customer base can experience attractions – indeed I suspect that is just a matter of time.
2 – Regardless of Disney’s difficulties, there are plenty of third parties who would surely like to step in and help solve the parking problem. The moment parking is removed from a majority of APs, I can see a competing enterprise popping up as a “park and ride” operation: charging a membership fee and running a bus network to reach the park. It would surprise me if Disney wanted to leave that cash on the table.
3 – In the short term, a bit of “chaos” might be pretty good PR for Disney. In the immediate months after SWL opens, the parks will pretty much sell themselves; the chaos deterring people might be a good thing, and long after that’s died down, people will remember that there’s this “chaos inducing” thing they HAVE to see at DL, and get on down.
Ultimately (as alluded to in the article) Disney have plenty of levers they can pull, up to and including charging for entry to SWL if it comes to it. The only reason there would be “chaos” is if Disney decides, directly or indirectly, that that is the best option.
1. Agreed. MaxPass is, without a doubt, aimed at tourists. Ditto Fantasmic moving primarily to a FastPass system.
2. Almost all of Southern California’s park and ride offerings are abysmal. I don’t see locals going for that. I think the de facto solutions will be Lyft and Uber for those 15-20 minutes away in OC.
3. I agree with this to an extent. However, there’s a line between good buzz from popularity, and Disneyland making the nightly news for a week straight because they’ve backed up traffic on I-5. *That* is definitely not good publicity.
Hi tom! I was wondering if you are going to do top 10 disneyland resort rides and then your personal favorite Disneyland rides sort of like what you did with Disney World. I love your blog by the way! -Chris
Yep, we’ll have that in the next month or so! 🙂
I didn’t think this would be an Annual Passholder bashing article, but it is. Disney didn’t do much for infrastructure for a very long time so don’t blame Anaheim. Anaheim city council changed to reflect the electorate that didn’t like the chummy Disney giveaways. So Disney sat on its behind while doing very little to advance it’s objectives including that of Star Wars Land. The Eastern Gateway has a flawed design. So what did they do? Pretty much nothing for months. Is Disney incapable of making decisions? Seems that way.
Look at Universal Orlando who opened lots of new hotel resorts. Where’s the new hotel resort projects at Disneyland Resort? Only one luxury 5 star resort is coming 5 years later. Nothing to replace or upgrade the deteriorating Paradise Pier Hotel.
Disney is in the business of filling its parks. They aren’t in the business of cutting their products so Annual Passes will still be sold. They aren’t going to make the same mistake that Universal Studios Hollywood did by cutting sales of cheaper APs. USH has restored sales of their cheapest APs.
Yes, parking will be horrible, but Disney will continue to be a locals park because there’s a lack of onsite accommodations. Downtown Disney parking lots should easily fit 3 new resorts. Toy Story lot should fit a mega Disney resort. Disney is waiting to see what happens, but they are courting disaster.
I’m not sure how the article bashes APs, but okay, I guess.
I agree with you to an extent regarding the relationship between Disney and Anaheim, but I think the current position of the city is an overreaction to years of rubber-stamping whatever Disney wanted. It now appears, to me at least, that elected officials are using Disney as a scapegoat for other problems. Whether the officials are trying to influence public opinion regarding Disney or are acting as a barometer of public opinion is unclear to me. My guess is that it’s a mix of the two.
Why Disney is not acting more swiftly to redesign the Eastern Gateway and come up with a compromise solution is beyond me. My only guess is that they are trying to run out the clock on this mayor (who is termed out), and are hoping for a more receptive political climate. Personally, I think that’s an atrocious idea. They should come up with better plans and try to get this done now.
There are several luxury hotels coming to Anaheim that are not Disney. (Two of them are also being tied up by a 2018 referendum.) I would expect more to be announced once the Eastern Gateway is open. For now, they cannot lose that parking. The Toy Story lot has long been earmarked for a third gate, so I sure hope it doesn’t become a mega resort.
Just because USH’s strategy with cutting APs didn’t work out for them ahead of WWoHP does not mean it’s the wrong approach for Disneyland. Very different parks with different demographics. Better to take a conservative approach on APs and offer SoCal 2-3 day ticket deals, than oversell APs and find the parks hitting capacity and turning away tourists.