Epcot Forever Review: You Can’t Go Home Again
Epcot Forever is Walt Disney World’s newest nighttime spectacular, temporarily bridging the gap between IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth, and HarmonioUS, which will debut in 2020. This review of the new show will take a long and rambling path that discusses the past, present, and my personal ruminations on EPCOT Center.
It’s always interesting to look at social media reactions to changes at Walt Disney World. What’s most fascinating here is that the Epcot Forever reviews I’ve seen have been mostly negative, but for very different reasons. Among the people I follow on Twitter, there’s near unanimous agreement that ending with “A Whole New World” is not only a mistake and unforced error, but a slap in the face to EPCOT Center fans.
On Facebook and Instagram, there seems to be a general sense of bewilderment about literally everything before the “A Whole New World” finale. What are those songs? What do they have to do with Disney? Why are they in this show? Beyond the technical side, there doesn’t seem to be consensus or much love for Epcot Forever.
It’s easy to forget the reality that there is no singular “Disney fan community.” That’s like saying there’s a single “politics community.” Rather, there are a bunch of distinct fandoms, each having very different interests and perspectives that are often quite insular.
Running this site, I see a range of planning-related issues and concerns, many of which would never otherwise cross my mind as they don’t personally interest me. On Twitter, I follow and engage with accounts that mostly pertain to history or the bygone era of Walt Disney World. Fellow enthusiasts of Country Bear Jamboree, EPCOT Center, and fellow members of the Demo-Pooh-blican Party who hold steadfast to the belief that Pooh was robbed of the presidency. You know, cool and totally normal stuff.
To illustrate the chasms between sub-communities, I never once saw conversation on Twitter about the recent ECV and stroller rule changes that generated over 200 comments on this blog post, and a flurry of outrage on Facebook. (I did, however, observe week 187 of the fierce debate over which Disney Springs parking structure is superior. Even the airport has weighed in.)
The point is that there is no specific archetype for the “Walt Disney World fan.” There are a lot of varied Disney interests, and quite often, those are at odds with one another.
The team behind Epcot Forever had an unenviable task–creating a show that would somehow work for new and longtime Epcot fans. We’re not just talking first-timers and frequent visitors; the divide here is more like those who had their first trip before or after the Millennium Celebration.
For me, this divide and the finale of Epcot Forever solidify an important lesson: you can’t go home again. We’ve discussed in previous posts why fans can’t let EPCOT Center go, and this is something with which I’ve grappled for the last several years. There was a point when I voraciously consumed Epcot rumors, holding out a flicker of hope that the park’s original vision would be restored.
It has taken me a while to come to terms with the reality that this will not be happening. When rumors emerged prior to the D23 Expo that Journey into Imagination would be reimagined in the spirit of the original, I had what you could call a momentary lapse of reason. I became foolishly optimistic and excited, only to be deflated when nothing was announced.
I’ve long wanted to believe that with more visionary leadership, Imagineers that strongly advocated for the park, or other variables, EPCOT’s original spirit and ambition could be recaptured.
However, so much has changed since the 1980s. Everything from our society’s view of theme parks to American corporate messaging to Disney’s leadership and vision are very different now than they were four decades ago. Even Walt Disney World’s visitor demographics have radically changed–to the point that some of the original park’s messaging would be difficult to pull off. Holding out hope of a return to EPCOT Center is a fool’s errand.
I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about that and have mostly come to terms with the future of Epcot. It is never going to be the inspiring place that stirred a sense of inquisitiveness and imagination, making an indelible impact on me as a kid and young adult. That doesn’t mean tomorrow’s Epcot can’t be a quality theme park for entertainment and lighthearted fun. I’ll always have the memories, and soon, new ones of a totally different park.
My most vivid (and recent) memories of ‘old EPCOT’ are via IllumiNations: Reflections of Earth. Even though I know I’ve seen it for the last time, I still haven’t totally come to terms with it ending. Part of that is undoubtedly because, as long as World Showcase exists, I can still put in my headphones and travel back in time for 68 minutes.
This is why I haven’t written an IllumiNations tribute post and…I don’t think I will. As much as the show deserves it, sitting down to write a long-winded eulogy sounds nauseating. It would make IllumiNations being gone “real.” Sorry, but that’s not really something I want to do right now. Along with Impressions de France, IllumiNations is the most meaningful present-day Epcot experience for me, and I don’t want to say goodbye completely.
All of this is a long-winded preface for what I guess is ostensibly an Epcot Forever Review.
Epcot Forever’s closest counterpart is “Remember… Dreams Come True” at Disneyland, an equally self-referential show that pays tribute to that park’s storied legacy. Aside from vastly different audiences, the key distinction between the two is that much of Epcot’s greatest music is gone from the park. Most of what isn’t gone is buried in unpopular attractions that are shadows of their former selves that newer visitors are likely to skip.
While original songs can absolutely work in a nighttime spectacular, I don’t see the potential for that with Epcot Forever’s potential source music, even if the show were executed flawlessly.
In an ironic twist, these songs are more like “theme park IP,” being used as a crutch for their baked-in nostalgia (among some guests). Divorced from their original context, they don’t have nearly (or any?) resonance for guests hearing these songs for the first time.
With that in mind, Walt Disney World had a couple options with the show. The first would be phoning it in and going heavy on EPCOT Center fan service. This could’ve been accomplished by simply mixing together an extinct attraction medley. Given the 25th and 30th Anniversary tags, we know this is possible.
However, the downsides to this are two-fold: leading EPCOT Center fans on with a false sense of optimism and eliciting a bewildered “HUH?” reaction from anyone who didn’t visit the park prior to around 2000 (perhaps earlier). It’d alienate newer guests, but the diehards would love it.
The next approach would be to take a mix of old and new, the latter including things like Test Track, Mission: Space, and music from intellectual property already in Epcot–basically, more than just Soarin. This is the middle ground route, and I’m not sure anyone would’ve loved it, but the show itself probably doesn’t alienate anyone either.
In fact, end it with ‘We Go On’ or ‘Tomorrow’s Child’ and it probably is a mostly feel-good show for the old-timers, while perhaps confusing newer guests. (Or, end it with ‘Let it Go’ to appeal to first-timers while trolling the longtime fans, who’d be even more irate than with the current Epcot Forever.)
The approach Walt Disney World took is an interesting but bold one. The first 8 or 9 minutes of Epcot Forever’s 11-minute runtime deliver an ambitious form of fan service.
It’s surprisingly not phoned in. I don’t agree with a lot of the creative choices, but more effort was put in than simply mixing theme songs.
I’m not sure why the decision was made to feature the voices of children, both in song and pre-show announcements, so prominently. There’s a certain dignity a show about EPCOT Center’s history could have, and that choice demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of the park. (It’s like the IllumiNations Farewell merchandise all over again.) Perhaps this was a conscious decision, an effort to tug at the heartstrings of parents who have no attachment to the music? The same move did work for Wishes, after all.
There’s also arguably a pacing issue with the flow of the music. This probably reads as quite the ironic complaint coming from someone who loves IllumiNations, but I think Epcot Forever could benefit from being faster-paced and snappier. Transitioning between so many songs of different styles could be challenging, but fan-made EPCOT mixes have handled this well using dialogue and other techniques.
My biggest disappointment, of all things, is the pre- and post-show music. This is supposedly an original loop for Epcot Forever, but you wouldn’t know by listening. It’s upbeat and fun–but also dreadfully generic. I don’t think anyone listening to this will say, “oh yeah, this is very Epcot.”
There are parts that sound a lot like the background music used at Disney Springs. I guess maybe Walt Disney World management wants to get people out of the park as quickly as possible rather than lingering to enjoy the ambiance and a delightful music loop. (That’s a joke–late dining reservations make Epcot a park that will never clear quickly.)
On the plus side, the visuals of Epcot Forever work pretty well. There are a lot of lasers and spotlights, which are used to varying degrees of success depending upon the cloud cover and smoke (same with IllumiNations). There’s also a greater variety of pyro (and it’s more vibrant) than in IllumiNations, which makes for a more photogenic show.
Then there are the kites. I’ve seen daytime harbor shows with jet skis and kites before, but these are a whole different level of mesmerizing. There’s nothing else happening on the lagoon during these two segments, but that’s just fine. These kites carry Epcot Forever and provide a nice change of pace from the pyro. I hope these are ‘proof of concept’ for HarmonioUS, because it’d be unfortunate if they’re only ever used for a temporary show.
With all of that said, I mostly love the first 8 minutes of Epcot Forever. When it comes to this park’s music, I’m an easy mark. I joked when the show was announced that I was really looking forward to listening to the music I hear daily on my phone’s playlists–but once again inside the park and set to pyro. That was only half in jest; there’s a lot of baked-in nostalgia for me with these songs, and the bulk of the show felt like a delightful stroll down memory lane.
Then the finale happens, which snaps me and most other EPCOT Center fans back to reality. Even though the altered lyrics of “One Little Spark” provide an apt transition, it feels abrupt and jarring, and is absolutely not what most long-time EPCOT Center fans first expected from a nostalgia-heavy show.
Ultimately, we should’ve seen this coming. Watching the full 12-minute projection-mapping show in the Epcot Experience serves as a “nice” appetizer for Epcot Forever, as offers a similarly blunt presentation about the park’s future. Neither are the feel-good offerings of faux-optimism about the park’s direction that EPCOT Center fans would like.
Personally, I would’ve loved to bask in the comfort of nostalgia and what once was for just a few more months as a way to ease out of IllumiNations. Yet, the finale of Epcot Forever is more honest. It bridges the gap between the past and what the future actually holds, rather than romanticized daydreams of fans still yearning for a promising or cohesive vision. Epcot Forever leaves no room for ambiguity and underscores exactly where the park is going. It may not be the message many of us want to hear, but maybe it’s what we need to hear…for the times they are a-changin’.
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Your Thoughts
What do you think of Epcot Forever? Do you agree or disagree with our review? Any questions we can help you answer? Hearing your feedback–even when you disagree with us–is both interesting to us and helpful to other readers, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Even though I’ve been a die-hard Epcot fan for almost 30 years, I’m not super concerned about Epcot Forever because it’s still just a temporary show. It has it’s positives and negatives, but will be gone forever sometime next year.
Harmonious (I refuse to capitalize the u-s because that’s just so DUMB) is what really matters.
And I wonder how much of Harmonious is already “in the can”? Can the negative reactions to some of Epcot Forever’s mistakes still make a difference?
I would hope so.
I would think so.
Because I gonna BLOW MY LID if they have kid’s voices play such a big roll in Harmonious, and the pre-post music is as uninspired as Epcot Forever’s.
photo. Anyways, my first typical annual visit to EPCOT Center was circa 1989/1990 as a young child so my memory is not so vivid of EPCOT Center prior to mid-1990s but I do recall most of the EPCOT Center attractions prior to closing. Since I love Disney Park history, I gained a bigger appreciation of 1980s EPCOT Center. Plus, I am grateful to EPCOT Center fans like Martin Smith of martinsvids.net and Joshua Harris of E82 for sharing videos and music from 1980s EPCOT Center. I love all songs and background music from that era. Overall, I liked Epcot Forever when I watched it on DisneyParksBlog. I know the show is temporary so I was not expecting a big extravaganza like Reflection of Earth or Happily Ever After. My favorite part of the show was the classic music and this alone left me with an overall positive feeling of Epcot Forever. I love how the show featured all my favorite Epcot songs from classic attractions such as World of Motion, Horizons, Journey, and Kitchen Kabaret. I agree A Whole New World and the prominent use of children’s voices hindered the show and kept it from passing Remember Dreams Come True fireworks on my list of favorite Disney fireworks shows. The children’s voices worked well in Wishes, Remember Dreams Come True, and HolidayWishes but it didnt fit into Epcot Forever. If Figment and Dreamfinder together hosted the show, I would have rated the show 11 out of 10.
I have yet to watch any streams of EPCOT Forever… I refuse to admit that Illuminations is done. The thought makes me want to ugly cry, again! That being said, this is a fantastic review and I agree just based on what you said that this sounds like what is actually to come and not what the diehards wanted. Sad to see the direction things are headed in, but I’m still optimistic that I’ll love the reimagined EPCOT – at the very least more than the old, forgotten version that we’ve recently come to know.
Side note : where can I find this playlist you speak of? Sounds incredible!
Just a side note. I disagree with the assertion that the new Tomorrowland sign is universally loved. The feedback that I have seen indicates that people either love it or hate it. As with many of the changes we are seeing at WDW, some are better than others. Enough people objected to the change to say that the new sign is assuredly NOT out of this universe.
So I think part of the displeasure or meh feeling is we have been viewing IllumiNations for so long and comparing the new show to something that was just about perfect. Agree? I too felt it choppy and couldn’t quite make the connections. I did love the kites but thought more could have been done with them. Being a HUGE Figment fan I enjoyed that nostalgia – taking me back to the 80’s and our family trips to WDW. Perhaps Disney is hoping for these mixed reviews. Why make it too awesome when we have a new show come in 2020? This way the 2020 show has a lesser show to be compared to. Ever think of that? What ever way you look at it, I think we have to come to terms this is it for now, and hope that 2020 delivers over the top results. We are counting on you Disney!! Please do not let us down!
I will get to see the new show in November and it will be interesting based upon the comments since I have been an EPCOT fan since my first trip in 1991. I do miss Horizons, and the Wonders of Life pavilion attractions (Body Wars, Cranium Command, Making of Me). All of which I wish they had updated rather than eliminated. I wasn’t a fan of World of Motion so I was happy when they replaced that with Test Track. EPCOT has been a lost child for Disney for many years now trying to establish what it wants to be when it grows up. My EPCOT of years past didn’t have a lot of tie ins to Disney movies. Now we have Frozen that replaced learning about Norway. Ratatouille, Mary Poppins, Marvel, Nemo, and so on. The original EPCOT and concept is long gone and this is one park that will continue to struggle with an identity for years to come with multiple personalities depending on what section you are in.
The important thing everyone needs to remember is that this show is TEMPORARY….it’s only supposed to run about a year. I’ve only watched the videos…I have not seen it live. I’ve found the show to be okay. It’s not great by any means, but I also wasn’t expecting it to be. I really wasn’t expecting Disney to pour a ton of cash and effort into putting together a temporary show. With that said, it’s still better than Rivers of Dullness…err…Light at Animal Kingdom. The emotional investment in critiquing this show bewilders me….because in a year or so, it’s going to be gone.
Yes, Ray, but this show was touted as a treat for fans of old Epcot. The company’s marketing specifically leveraged the emotions of a certain type of fan in order to build anticipation and attract crowds. Expectations were raised and dashed. It’s also important to note that Epcot isn’t temporarily dropping admission prices to acknowledge their mediocre, temporary entertainment.
I was there for the opening night. I loved hearing some of the songs from my first visit in 1983, and I loved the kites. But I didn’t care for the kids’ voices either and was kind of meh about the show overall. I’m not sure why they needed this temporary show – why not keep Illuminations until the new one was ready?
Hi Debbie. I believe one of the reasons for the temporary show is they need to re-purpose former structural components of Reflection of Earth into the new HarmonioUS show.
Among proper fan communities, the response has appeared pretty consistent to me: Like the nostalgia, thought the execution could be better, hated AWNW at the end. It wasn’t very artfully done overall, even if the nostalgia songs themselves were nice. I think most everyone liked the dead-stop and surprise too. Even though some people put a positive spin on it, and some a negative, the overall choices about what’s good and bad are consistent among actual fans. The spin people put on it is more about how their brains are wired.
So I guess the question is: who is Disney listening to? Probably not us, judging by recent changes to the parks. Nevertheless, I don’t think it would be that hard to please fans, because most of us want approximately the same thing.
You might be right though. You certainly can’t go home again, so maybe we’ll never be truly happy. But never being happy doesn’t mean you have to take the parks in a totally different direction and actively piss people off. They really don’t, even if we’ve come to terms with the direction things are going at this point.
i agree, a whole new world had NO place in this show at all. it felt incredibly forced and out of place. had nothing to do with the show or epcot as a whole.
I was there for the first night of Epcot Forever, and while I enjoyed the kites and increased number of fireworks, I was not a fan of the children’s voices. It just didn’t seem to mesh well with… anything. I only became a Disney parks fan about 10 years ago when I was in my 20s, so don’t have the same nostalgic view of Epcot, but I did looooove Illuminations (which is why I planned a trip for its final showing). I don’t have high expectations for HarmonioUS either.
I’m glad we weren’t the only ones to notice how the tone of the pre-show and post-show music felt off. The musical selections themselves are fine on their own terms but the vibe just doesn’t fit an evening at Epcot. The new music undercuts the peacefulness that has always defined nighttime around World Showcase.
I’m such an original Epcot sap that I’ve spent the last couple of decades lamenting that Reflections of Earth didn’t end with the World Showcase pavilions flashing extravagantly to “Rhapsody in Blue.” The fact that most bloggers talk about Reflections of Earth as being the original show that kept a link to old Epcot reminds me that I’m older than I think I am and that EPCOT has been gone for longer than I care to admit. It’s hard to explain to people how much EPCOT shaped the person I grew into. My first visit, in 1982, thrilled me to the core. I had never considered the world outside America before, or how humanity is linked by their dreams and vision, wherever they are located. I believe the years I spent, during my 20’s, working and living outside the U.S. would not have occurred without my childhood experiences at Epcot. Now I’m 43, with children of my own. I always hope that my kids will have their curiosity awoken, and discover a sense of global citizenship at Epcot. It’s not to be. Epcot is just a strange name for a very entertaining theme park nowadays. Animal Kingdom is now doing a better job, through different methods and messages, of connecting to what’s best inside humanity.
You literally wrote everything I was thinking! As a 42 year old, you just about summed it up.
Kimberly, it makes me so sad that younger generations couldn’t experience that sense of wonder. Then again, kids today are growing up with streaming, smart phones and VR. Maybe Dreamfinder’s School of Drama wouldn’t impress them nearly as much as it did for me! Lol!
My sentiments exactly!
I was really excited about Epcot Forever. While the children’s voices threw me off a bit, I actually really liked the show – until the last song. After all the feel good nostalgia, I felt sucker punched hearing “a whole new world”.
This is a bit off topic from Epcot Forever, but… my first visit to Epcot was in 1983 when I was in 7th grade. I loved thrill rides at the time, but Epcot was by far my favorite park. If Epcot Center resonated so much with us as kids, I’m not sure why they couldn’t have found updated ways to continue Epcot’s original vision to continue to appeal to families today? I’m not excited about all the character infusion and removal of edutainment.
Shannon, yes!! I was only in first grade during my first visit, but I remember feeling respected by how the park was trusting me to understand and connect with its messages. I had heard all about how “grown up” the park was supposed to be, and it made me want to be worthy of the experience. I enjoyed how the park revealed itself in layers as I grew older and could take more in. The IP rides will be lovely and entertaining, I’m sure, but Frozen Ever After, for example, has a mindlessness that was never part of early Epcot rides.
Compliments to your original Illuminations show reference. That was my first Disney fireworks show as a young kid and I remember it vividly. I loved it. I somewhat disappointed when Illuminations 25 replaced it.
I saw it on live stream and thought it was rather boring,. River’s of Light is still my favorite night time show. I hope they can improve on the show, though, Epcot used to be my favorite park, now I’m not even going to go this trip. It just didn’t thrill me, Sorry Disney. Very disappointed. Music was good, though.
I won’t be at WDW again until my upcoming Christmas trip, but I watched Epcot Forever via Disney’s love feed.
I’m less philosophical than Tom regarding WDW or Epcot’s past and future (though I was holding out hope for a kids-hand-on-science-museum for the redesign) and my reaction was simply this: a medley of tunes, however well the segues might be done, always sounds arbitrary and incoherent compared to a unified composition, which the soundtrack to Illuminations was. For that reason alone I found the new show disappointing. I hope the permanent show, when it debuts, will avoid this pitfall– but I’m not optimistic, the new fireworks at the Magic Kingdom has the same problem, suggesting Disney doesn’t see a musical problem there.
Make that “live” feed in the first sentence. Intriguing typo, though.
it felt like a love feed in a way- they only interviewed people who had good things to say and who weren’t lamenting illuminations…
The kites looked cool. But overall I was not a fan of this show. Why couldn’t they just run illumiNations until the new show next year.
Also I think it would have been cool if the kites were made to look like a magic carpet when a whole new world played.
Exactly, Jim. Why couldn’t they have just continued on with IllumiNations until the new show launches? And rather than analyzing to death the reasons why Epcot Forever is a failure, I can sum it up in two words: It’s boring.
I’m so disappointed in it, in fact, we’ve rearranged our entire vacation schedule this December to avoid going to Epcot on any of the 5 nights we’ll be @ WDW. As much as it killed me, I even cancelled our existing dinner reservation at Le Cellier (grrrr).
In short, at $100+ per day, per person, I expect a hell of a lot more from Disney than a half-baked, cheap “nighttime spectacular” like Epcot Forever. I understand IllumiNations was dated – and I actually look forward to new Disney experiences because I’ve come to expect to typically be blown away every time they come up with something new… but this show is purely lame.
End of rant.
i m go to epcot forever to epcot guests for jon i watch it live i came go to Disney parks Live i Loved tx epcot i go to epcot experince i go to star wars gaixies edge
I watched the livestream on the parks blog, so I took the visuals with a grain of salt, but the kites looked neat even through that medium. I am a huge fan of the original Epcot songs, (my first trip was 1991, and we had the official park album on cassette tape), for context. I thought the first 8 minutes were okay–loved the songs, appreciated the effort that went into the mix, but felt the pacing was off on the whole. I think a whole new world was a poor way to end it (though I hadn’t really considered your point about that being the only recognizably Disney song for recent visitors). I think pointing to the future is the way to go, but better than AWNW (which is a great song, just irritating in this context), would have been music from coming attractions (the Ratatouille ride, Guardians), OR even better write something to go with the new neighborhood concept OR a preview of the HarmoniUS theme.
Great commentary.
A variation of your title (“can’t go home again”) was the last thing my late father told me before I left for basic training. Brought back great memories of being there as a family when I was a kid. Thank you.
I felt similarly about the show though I’d have preferred ending with Tomorrow’s Child or New Horizons or even another reprise of One Little Spark, but what are you gonna do. (Energy, you make the world go round, anyone?). Anyway, how can I get the old Epcot music? It’s not on Spotify and my old cd is buried somewhere.
E82.com was a great resource but Disney made him stop sharing ugh. Best resources now are YouTube, The Music of Disneyland: Walt Disney World and Epcot Center album, or maybe Mousebits torrents
I saw the show opening night and loved the kites. I was wondering where you took the pictures that seem like you are over on top of Yacht club? And what is your favorite viewing spot for this show?
I’m really interested in this sentence:
“Even Walt Disney World’s visitor demographics have radically changed—to the point that some of the original park’s messaging would be difficult to pull off.”
I’m not very knowledgeable about park histories, so could someone please explain this or point me to another post/resource that does. What was WDW’s original demographic and what is it now? And what is EPCOT’s original message that would now be difficult to pull off? Just genuinely intrigued.
Thanks!
The original idea of EPCOT (Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow) was to create a community of the future, a futurist city. But the city was never built.