Pirates of the Caribbean Redhead Auction Scene Changing: the Debate
If you haven’t heard by now, Disney announced that it would be updating Pirates of the Caribbean at Walt Disney World and Disneyland to remove the ‘Redhead Wench Auction Scene’ and replace it with a new auction scene. This was easily the most controversial Disney news since…eh…about 48 hours before. (Last updated February 26, 2018.)
I don’t have anything to add in terms of news beyond what the Disney Parks Blog shared. So, if that’s all you want, go there. Instead, I wanted to offer some commentary on this. I feel this news has not necessarily been a conversation so much as a shouting match guided by underlying political(ish) views.
Update: Pirates of the Caribbean has now returned from refurbishment, and the new scene has debuted. It pretty much is identical to the concept art, and while there are a couple of cheesy lines of dialogue in the new scene, or analysis of the new Auction scene is pretty much the same as it was when we saw the initial concept art…
I know I’m essentially putting my entire head into the hornet’s nest here, but I think this is an interesting topic that pertains to the intersection of art, history, evolving cultural norms, and more. I also believe it’s a conversation capable of being had without ad hominem attacks…
I think the first, and strongest, argument in favor of maintaining Pirates of the Caribbean is artistic integrity. We’ve discussed theme parks as art on the blog before; the unfortunate reality is that most people do not view theme parks, or the attractions therein, as art. I don’t think it’s a snobbish thing, but rather that (like video games) most people have never really given theme parks that type of consideration.
When viewed as art, there are some practical realities that must be considered and concessions that must be made given their functional purpose. Refreshing Carousel of Progress’ final act is not like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Likewise, you cannot expect Future World to be forever unchanged–the very theme dictates otherwise. Extreme examples, to be sure, but the point stands. There’s more fluidity to theme parks than other art; things must be updated.
However, there must be a line. Arguably, you approach that line when the conversation involves updating classic attractions–the masterpieces. If the change is change for its own sake or so a new generation of Imagineers can leave their mark–neither of which would actually improve on the attraction–it should not be made. (While I do not think this is change for its own sake, the replacement auction scene does not make a ton of sense in the context of the ride–but that’s another topic for another post.)
The question is: where do updates that fit with evolving cultural norms and values fit into that? Do we reject such changes, acknowledging that the attraction was a product of a different era, when certain gags and jokes would’ve been okay that are cringeworthy today, and appreciate it as art of its generation? Or, do we view Pirates of the Caribbean through a contemporary lens, and expect its content to comport with today’s values?
I’m not sure there’s an easy answer to that, and it certainly doesn’t help that there is not really a body of art theory (or even an ongoing discussion about parks as art) to provide guidance. Usually, art must be confronted on the terms of its day, as it does not change over time. The best example of art being changed decades later that we really have is the revisionism of the E.T. walkie talkies controversy, but that’s different…or is it?
I also think there’s something to be said for being willing to preserve and confront history, even that which makes us uncomfortable. Revisionist history is a problem, and if we don’t face our mistakes, we’re bound to repeat them. There are two components to this: pirate history and American history.
In the case of American history, the case can be made that Pirates of the Caribbean is not just significant as a Disneyland classic and one of the last attractions that Walt Disney himself had personal involvement. You can make a case that, whatever its shortcomings, Pirates of the Caribbean is a ‘time capsule’ of pop culture and views towards entertainment in the 1960s. For this perspective, you have to ignore the 1990s and Johnny Depp changes, but it’s still an arguably-valid point.
With regard to pirate history, I’m not sure a compelling argument can be made that this is a historically accurate take on pirate history to begin with. Is altering the scenes of something that never purported to reflect actual history really revisionist? Moreover, are we actually confronting the bad acts of pirates in the attraction, or are we celebrating them? This leads me into the next point…
The ‘confronting’ side of presenting the dastardly deeds of pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean is that the attraction is acceptable because it is a cautionary tale. This is most clear in the Disneyland version, but even in the other attractions there are signals (“dead men tell no tales”) in the dialogue, visual imagery, and narrative framing.
Despite these, I’d contend that Pirates of the Caribbean does not proceed as an archetypal morality play. The characters who embody specific vices or bad deeds are not confronted with justice. They neither face nor make any difficult decisions, they do not atone for their sins, and they are not directly punished for choosing the wrong path.
Likewise, the audience is not challenged by the negative attributes of the pirates. They are presented at face value, and that’s pretty much that. Due to the narrative structure of Pirates of the Caribbean, each misdeed is presented as a fleeting vignette, not to be revisited. It does not seem to me as if these scenes are asking the guest for contemplation or to make any sort of value judgment.
Pirates of the Caribbean does not have the touchstones of a morality tale, unless you are willing to infer a lot from its narrative framework. While I mentioned above that an argument could be made that it’s a cautionary tale, I think that’s probably only to the extent of the greed of the pirates. Greed is a concept that can be read broadly, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say, “these pirates died for their greedy act of selling women.”
This is not to say that Pirates of the Caribbean glamorizes piracy. The foreshadowing and general tone of the narrative frameworks suggests pirate life was grim. I don’t see the attraction as a celebration of pirate life. I don’t really see it as a condemnation of pirate life, either. Instead, it falls in a grey area in between, almost a way of saying: “Hey, you know everything that seems fun in the middle? It’s actually not good…but enjoy it anyway!”
I think it’s easy to see how conflicting interpretations of Pirates of the Caribbean can exist. For my part, I don’t think Pirates of the Caribbean has any message whatsoever. My ‘interpretation’ of Pirates of the Caribbean is pretty straightforward: you begin with varying degrees of foreshadowing and foreboding, which serve to build up to the big reveal of the pirates besieging the fort.
Everything that follows is more about offering clever vignettes of wacky stuff pirates do than about telling a linear story into their fall. I doubt that the actual intent with the narrative arc was to give moral heft to the attraction; it was likely for the sake of pacing and building up to the ‘big reveal.’ From that perspective, the question for me is whether ‘wackiness’ is enough to justify a scene like this?
The strongest argument in favor of modifying the scene to something that does not showcase the subjugation of women is changing social norms. While the scene is explicitly depicting human trafficking and sex slavery, I think casting the auction scene as problematic solely in that light misses the point. Most guests are probably not concerned about these heinous acts being normalized for their kids.
Even as bad as those things are (and likely would not be kosher in an attraction built in 2017), I don’t think their depiction is what bothers people about this scene. Just like other “bad acts” in Pirates of the Caribbean, there’s little danger of the normalization of crime and violence by virtue of exposure to Pirates of the Caribbean–we can all agree those are bad things.
I think it’s a false equivalency to compare the auction scene to, say, the scene with Carlos that could be viewed as waterboarding (a comparison I’ve seen made repeatedly online since this news broke). The controversy surrounding the auction scene is not simply about an act, in isolation, that is bad. It’s about how guests perceive and internalize the act.
In the case of waterboarding, there should be little impact (unless, I guess, you’ve been waterboarded before?) on most guests. I don’t think the same can be said for objectifying women. I’m no good at math, but women are probably like half the world’s population, give or take.
The cumulative effect of casual sexism on women is an issue that is now, rightfully, in the public spotlight. What passed in the 1960s as an innocuous gag we now understand could be viewed to normalize misogyny and the objectification of women. While it’s recently become clear plenty of men yearn for the ‘good ole days’ of the 1960s, I’m not particularly keen on societal regression. Just because something was viewed as “okay” for decades does not mean it was, and will always be, okay. Times change.
As someone who has never experienced the ill effects of misogyny, I feel like this is a scenario where it’s not really my place to offer a value judgment on how the redhead auction scene does or does not impact other guests. I don’t know what that’s like to experience the world as a woman.
Even as I want to be able to justify this current auction scene to myself as being important because of artistic integrity or the history of Disneyland and pop culture (and that is exactly what I did as recently as 5 years ago when addressing the topic), I have come around to the perspective that this is selfish. I picture a hypothetical scenario: I have a young daughter, and after experiencing the attraction, she asks about that scene. What do I say? Even if she doesn’t say anything, do I proactively address it? To be honest, I have no idea.
As much as I value my nostalgia and iconic aspects of classic attractions, it feels “right” to err on the side of not reinforcing sexism. The iconic characters will still be there. The attraction will still focus on the pilfering of pirates.
I’m going to open this topic to reader comments, but I want to reiterate that I expect this to be civil. Besides, as persuasive as inflammatory rhetoric, devoid of reason is…actually, it isn’t persuasive at all. If you have a point to make, articulate it logically, and don’t insult others.
Is the ride going to be any less fun after the change? Are people really so connected to the one small scene that depicts sex slavery that they will not be able to enjoy the ride any more after it is changed? If someone is THAT connected to the scene that they will no longer be able to enjoy the ride after the alterations, I think that says a lot about them.
And honestly, if people learned how to deal with Disney adding Jack Sparrow and other parts of the movie series to the ride and still managed to enjoy it all the same, why should this be any different? The concept of “artistic integrity” for the ride was gone after that modification. But the ride is still very fun nonetheless. Even after the change to the sex slavery scene, the ride will still be very fun.
This change doesn’t hurt anyone, but serves as a very small part of removing the bits of society that are damaging to women. Yes, this change is minuscule in the grand scheme of things, but it doesn’t mean the change is without merit.
While I would like to be surprised by this news, I am really not. This is the overly-sensitive, PC culture we live in now. Once this scene as been removed, they will find something else to focus on that offends them for removal. Rinse and repeat.
Additions are welcome. Alterations, substitutions and omissions of animatronics or audio are to me extremely offensive. Essentially making other people’s feelings more important than mine and fans like me. RIP original Captain and wench hiding in the barrel. I wonder what happens to the abandoned animations retired for being politically incorrect. You think theirs some creepy warehouse full of jamboree bears somewhere? Scary thought.
Also can’t help but notice that the concept art makes it pretty obvious that the Red head is being rebranded for 2017’s strong female archetype. (See the Goddess Rey Force Awakens ). Giant gun and huge oversized pirate boots. Her skirt is no longer raised. And I’ll put money down t bffgat the new audio reel will have her ordering about the drunken driving male Pirates in the new sequence. Her new look is giving me that anything boys can do I can do better vibe.
The problem is Pirates of the Carribbean ( a ride debuting in the golden age of Connery 007) Is not politically correct enough to fit into 2017’s crowded safe space for the perpetually offended. It was never intended to be P. C. and it should not be altered to be. Let’s be honest. Pirates would never be made in politically correct 2017.
Any true fan of the ride knows it’s history and it’s very telling that it was originally conceived as a hall of VILLIANS by Walt himself. That’s right a museum of Bad guys from all history. Such a museum would definitely be banned today. Just imagine how animatronic Hitler would make millenials feel unsafe. Fortunately good old Walt decided to focus on one brand of Bad guys. Pirates.
The narrative isn’t hard to follow. Disney himself In interview describes the time travel down the waterfall.
It starts with the skeletal remains of the Pirates. The ultimate fate of those who adopt such a lifestyle is as clear as day. Its even narrated. Then we are transported back in time and witness those same pirates as they lived. Tbe ride proceeds to showcase all the horrible deeds that led to their ultimate fate. Everything you see is Bad. Its supposed to be bad. These are things we are not supposed to do. Its common sense that the pirates are bad guys. None of them are depicted doing anything good. Listen to the songs lyrics if your not convinced. Just because we love them doesn’t change the fact that they are bad guys. We love Darth Vader but most of us wouldn’t consider him a roll model.
All seven deadly sins are present throughout the ride. (For the moment) Yes Greed is showcased the most but there is plenty of envy, sloth, wrath, pride hillairious depiction of gluttony and Yes there is Lust.
To take the Bride auction out is a disservice to feminists and sjw’s that are offended by it. Because again the point is that what Pirates do is wrong.
Human trafficking, sexism, fat shaming, objectifying women whatever it is that the offended feel is wrong. That’s the point. Pillage, Plunder, rifle, loot, kidnap and ravage, (Yes RAVAGE look it up. basically rape in this context) and don’t give a hoot!
Disney has always been family oriented. That’s why scenes like the auction are tongue in cheek. They are depicted in a way that goes over the kids heads. Yet they address the issue in a humorous way for the adults. Its harmless. Its fun. And it should be left alone as it is.
Pirates the ride doesn’t glorify the pirate lifesty. They all end up dead and it’s strongly implied that they were cursed for their evil deeds. It is absolutely a cautionary tale. Anyone who thinks that the actions portrayed in the auction scene are wrong should want it to be left in tact for that very reason.
And of course people who are offended by pillaging, plundering, rifling, looting, kidnapping and especially ravaging might be more comfortable on P.C. small world and leave Pirates to us really bad eggs. No one’s forcing them to ride.
I am a female and do not have a problem with the auctioning scene at all. While I understand some people’s desire to change this scene tonkeep with the times, it is just stripping away the original intention of POC, which was to show how grim and dark a pirate’s life is. If a child sees it and asks about it, the parent might take that as an opportunity to explain that pirates did/do very bad things and that was one of them. I also think that this scene completely flies over most kids’ heads, but that’s simply my opinion.
Overall, I’m just not a fan of revisionist history, which is what it feels like Disney is doing here. Yes, it happened. Yes, it was bad. But we learn from it and improve as a society.
I am female, hear me roar and all of that. But, all I have ever done is chuckle, and enjoy the “we wants the redhead”, and “show us your starboard side”, I believe are the lines of that part of the ride.
How we behave in the present is what is important, not trying to sanitize our past.
I find I do not get offended when a 90 year old gentleman calls me honey, or a girl.
I will take a 40 year old man off at the knees for the same statement because they know better and should be more aware of the cultural norms now.
And yes, if that scene generates any conversation with your sons or daughters it is great to be able to say, “they did those heinous things in the past, and beware there are still atrocities being done to both men and women in this time period”.
Use it as a springboard to discuss how to protect themselves and if they ever see such a wrong occurring to try and protect someone from that.
Don’t friggin remove the scene.
Historically there were women pirates, Anne Bonny and Mary Read being the best known, so there is an argument to be made that it is historically accurate.
The pirates in the attraction are supposed to be bad. They are shown as horrible human beings. Thats the point. Disney would never “ok” slave auctioning, arson, murder, torture, and scaring the crap out of little kitty cats, just because they are shown in an attraction. Its obvious that these are not role-models even to a small child.
Against this change. Against the movie tie ins. Against the 1990s changes.
Im sorry but people are too sensitive.
“The pirates are supposed to be bad” Yes thats why you exit into a gift shop where you can dress your child in full pirate regalia, so you can walk around the park reminding people that it is bad
The pirates can be bad & people can still have fun with pretending to be pirates. Or do you think it’s bad when people pretend to be Darth Vader?
Two things can be true at once.
Walt himself said the parks will never be completed. The Disney teams have altered the rides and parks often. There are always people on both sides of these changes. What is awesome is that they always leave a little piece of what was before. I like the idea that the Red head is still in the ride and I am looking forward to seeing the update. Since the addtion of Captain Jack the ride isn’t true to it’s original slelf so this isn’t like someone ruined a classic car.
Han Shot First!!!
It amazes me that we are comfortable with scenes of terror… pirates burning down a village, stealing what is not theirs and torturing a male in a well, but we are offended by the bride auction…even though in the next scene the brides got the best of the pirates.
This is a done deal so there is no sense discussing it but our hypocracy still amazes me. As despicable as pirates are… we will have them as long as DIsney can make a buck.
I’m not sure this works. The fact that Disney is trying to address the issue of women objectification is commendable, but after some years, when people forget how the auction scene used to be, nobody will look at the new one and think ‘Hey, that’s nice how this scene is a symbol of gender equality’. They’ll think ‘So the beautiful redhead gets to be a badass pirate while the not-so-attractive women behind her are just victims? Disney, that’s so sexist!’
It’s the kind of thing that only works as a one-time ‘grand gesture’. It has merit, don’t get me wrong, but it’ll be forgotten next week. The new sketch has no self-sustained symbolism (or has a bad one). If you want to depict womanpower or whatever, it would be much better adding a scene where somehow those same women are now cornering those pirates at gunpoint. I’m not saying that would be a good idea, but it would be a better one.
This way you just make those who care about those issues look like a bunch of whiners who can’t see the difference between depicting past views and defending them. It starts a wave of ill-will, and ultimately hinders the progress of their discussion.
Oops, sorry. I was trying to post a new comment and must have clicked the wrong button.
Well, they removed the context when they changed the chase scene many years ago. The Pirates were chasing the women and there’s no indication they caught them. They should have left it alone. At best, keep the scene, but remove the auction banner.
I have ridden Magic Kingdom’s POC since I was a little girl. As an adult I have had the chance to also ride the Disneyland version (which I think is better). It has always been one of my favorite rides and is a must do during every visit. While I miss the version from my childhood, I don’t mind the additions from the movie. The auction scene has never bothered me, and still doesn’t today. When I was young I thought the redhead was pretty and had a fancy dress (no different than my favorite doll). Did I understand that she was being auctioned to be raped? No. My parents didn’t feel the need to take away my innocence by explaining what the scene meant. As an adult I am fully aware of human trafficking and how women are forced into the sex industry. I have seen this first hand (anyone who has been to regions of Thailand has seen this). Does this change my thoughts on the auction scene or the ride? No it doesn’t. I am well aware that these events happened. Do I feel offended and want the scene changed? No. Seeing the Red head standing proudly in spite of the situation makes me smile. I choose to see her as someone who has decided to take charge of herself. But then again how she is seen depends on the perspective of the viewer. Personally, I hope to continue to say “We wants the Redhead!”
This is exactly my view. I personally see it as more offensive that the “PC police” are trying to speak for me and say what I find offensive and what I can’t handle in a classic Disney attraction.
Everything from banning Confederate Flags to censoring the classic Looney Tunes cartoons, we now live in a society that feels deleting references to history will alter those events. Unfortunately, even the Taliban, ISIS and many Communist leaders engage in the same forms of censorship when something appears that is indifferent to their view of how the world should be. Now, I’m not saying Disney is a Communist dictator, but small changes like this delete the fact that when pirates sailed the seven seas, auctions like this took place! When taken lightly, it is a funny scene – but also depicts human trafficking. Even the recent live action “Beauty and the Beast” ruffled a whole lot of feathers when a beloved character was portrayed as openly gay! Fortunately, I was able to purchase my “We Wants the Redhead” pin for my pin collection – so I’ll always have the memory of how the ride once was. You will never make everyone happy – but deleting references to history and how the world was perceived isn’t the way to go.
While I am not particularly opposed to this change, I do understand the point you are making (although I am unsure where the Confederate Flag has been banned). I worry that sometimes we attempt to sanitize the more difficult aspects of our past rather than confront them. However, I must admit that I am confused by the inclusion of the sentence: ‘Even the recent live action “Beauty and the Beast” ruffled a whole lot of feathers when a beloved character was portrayed as openly gay!’ I am genuinely unsure what your point is here or how it supports your stated opinion.
Tom, I would like to thank you for an extremely thoughtful and even-handed approach to what is proving to be a divisive topic (I’ve never seen the comments section of the Disney Parks Blog so lit up). Your statement, ‘I think it’s a conversation capable of being had without ad hominem attacks…’ is one that is applicable to so many discussions going on in the world today!
Thank you for your thoughts Tom. I think you see down to the heart of the issue. It’s not as if the scene itself is causing all the “pearl clutching.” Of course pirates are bad and do unsavory things. But the ride doesn’t exist in a vacuum. I see a lot of people lamenting that you can’t say anything without offending people, but I think that reasoning is a bit of a cop out and frequently selfish, expressed by those who are afraid of their world changing. There’s so much more to it than not wanting to offend people. It’s about a veeeeery slow reshaping of society to weed out these little ways of making women feel inferior. Of course a silly little pirate scene is just that…until you consider the world in which we currently exist, where women are frequently bought and sold as commodities, where they are battered by messages telling them they’re not good enough unless they’re “xyz,” where they are constantly the victims of violent sexual crimes…then not so silly.
If you think changing a Disney ride is going to help women you are dreaming! I guess trying to drown a guy and everyone drunk while stealing and burning a city down is fine but we can’t offend women! Give me a break! Maybe just a sign saying images could be offensive could be posted beside the do not ride if pregnant sign to warn every one!
It’s a ride about pirates and they are not supposed to be nice.
No reason to change it at all.
I think the over-riding issue here is that Disney (like every other large company) fears the financial repercussions of where we are as a society now. Clearly, some folks have complained about this at some point, and that also means those complaints will at some point get amplified by our churning 24/7 opinion driven, news outlets. (CNN,FOX, ext.)
I don’t care for the type of country that makes us… but I get why a fortune 500 company would need to protect itself.
My beef is that because we are so easily offended…Disney brass had no choice but to conduct meeting after meeting to discuss, and debate the moral confluence of a comedic portrayal of fake pirates in a theme park. How silly is that!
Simba is murdered by Scar. Belle is kidnapped with the intent of a romantic conclusion by her captor. How far do we go with this?
We won’t always agree on everything, and that’s OK! The over riding danger is when I don’t agree with you… I start throwing out the word “offended”. That implies I’m now a victim because I don’t agree with what ever you are saying, or your position on a particular subject.
It’s Ok… It’s a ride in a theme park. It’s not Disney’s stamp of approval on sex trafficking. Move on. We as a free society need to stop looking for reasons to be offended.
You’re losing one of the best voiceover works of all time to appease 0.5% of visitors. I wouldnt care nearly as much if it wasn’t taking away the Frees narration. This is no different than enjoying watching Walter White in a show like Breaking Bad. Sometimes, it’s fun to root for the bad guy like the Green Knight at Medeval Times.
Sexist? Sure, but can’t we all put on our big pants and stop pearl clutching over every little thing? Put a disclaimer in the queue and be done with it.
I have to agree with all you said. If you had asked a few years back before I had taken my then 3-year-old daughter on that ride what I thought about changing a classic attraction I would have scoffed. However, like your hypothetical situation, I rode this ride with my daughter and hit that scene and was suddenly thankful that she was too young to understand what was going on and that I wouldn’t have to explain it. The fact that now I won’t have to and that now there is a stronger emphasis on the history that Women could be corrupt and pirate like as well and don’t have to be left to sit on the sidelines as the damsels in distress I think over time will better the storyline not take away from it.
Very very well written. As a 25 year old woman who has been visiting Disney World for 20 years, I can remember riding pirates for the first times when I was 5 and the auction scene did stick out to me. I can remember my mum explaining to me “oh they like her better because she’s pretty” so even at the age of FIVE I was learning that some people will judge my value based on my appearance. It was years before I understood the sex trafficking angle but my five year old mind could definitely process pretty = good, ugly = bad. So I know change is hard and the attraction is a masterpiece “of its time”, It will be good to think that any future daughters I have can ride without being made to feel like that. Although hopefully I would have handled the explanation more tactfully than my mother.
I for one am tired of the whining and complaining because all of a sudden feminists found something else to nit pick on. All of a sudden this part of the ride is not acceptable because it shows sexism. So what’s next the drowning man part? Are they going to replace the alcohol with tea so they don’t offend anybody sensitive to alcoholism? Is someone going to be upset and want to give a proper buriel to the real skeleton that is on display in the gem room? GET A LIFE! The ride isn’t showing things that are made up pull out your history books people! This was life back during the time period. I’m so sick of people wanting to change something due to their own options or beliefs and then forcing it on the rest of the world. If u don’t like it don’t get on plain and simple. I can’t believe Disney is bowing down to this.
“If u don’t like it don’t get on plain and simple.”
Will you be following your own advice once this refurbishment occurs?