Pirates of the Caribbean Redhead Auction Scene Changing: the Debate
If you haven’t heard by now, Disney announced that it would be updating Pirates of the Caribbean at Walt Disney World and Disneyland to remove the ‘Redhead Wench Auction Scene’ and replace it with a new auction scene. This was easily the most controversial Disney news since…eh…about 48 hours before. (Last updated February 26, 2018.)
I don’t have anything to add in terms of news beyond what the Disney Parks Blog shared. So, if that’s all you want, go there. Instead, I wanted to offer some commentary on this. I feel this news has not necessarily been a conversation so much as a shouting match guided by underlying political(ish) views.
Update: Pirates of the Caribbean has now returned from refurbishment, and the new scene has debuted. It pretty much is identical to the concept art, and while there are a couple of cheesy lines of dialogue in the new scene, or analysis of the new Auction scene is pretty much the same as it was when we saw the initial concept art…
I know I’m essentially putting my entire head into the hornet’s nest here, but I think this is an interesting topic that pertains to the intersection of art, history, evolving cultural norms, and more. I also believe it’s a conversation capable of being had without ad hominem attacks…
I think the first, and strongest, argument in favor of maintaining Pirates of the Caribbean is artistic integrity. We’ve discussed theme parks as art on the blog before; the unfortunate reality is that most people do not view theme parks, or the attractions therein, as art. I don’t think it’s a snobbish thing, but rather that (like video games) most people have never really given theme parks that type of consideration.
When viewed as art, there are some practical realities that must be considered and concessions that must be made given their functional purpose. Refreshing Carousel of Progress’ final act is not like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Likewise, you cannot expect Future World to be forever unchanged–the very theme dictates otherwise. Extreme examples, to be sure, but the point stands. There’s more fluidity to theme parks than other art; things must be updated.
However, there must be a line. Arguably, you approach that line when the conversation involves updating classic attractions–the masterpieces. If the change is change for its own sake or so a new generation of Imagineers can leave their mark–neither of which would actually improve on the attraction–it should not be made. (While I do not think this is change for its own sake, the replacement auction scene does not make a ton of sense in the context of the ride–but that’s another topic for another post.)
The question is: where do updates that fit with evolving cultural norms and values fit into that? Do we reject such changes, acknowledging that the attraction was a product of a different era, when certain gags and jokes would’ve been okay that are cringeworthy today, and appreciate it as art of its generation? Or, do we view Pirates of the Caribbean through a contemporary lens, and expect its content to comport with today’s values?
I’m not sure there’s an easy answer to that, and it certainly doesn’t help that there is not really a body of art theory (or even an ongoing discussion about parks as art) to provide guidance. Usually, art must be confronted on the terms of its day, as it does not change over time. The best example of art being changed decades later that we really have is the revisionism of the E.T. walkie talkies controversy, but that’s different…or is it?
I also think there’s something to be said for being willing to preserve and confront history, even that which makes us uncomfortable. Revisionist history is a problem, and if we don’t face our mistakes, we’re bound to repeat them. There are two components to this: pirate history and American history.
In the case of American history, the case can be made that Pirates of the Caribbean is not just significant as a Disneyland classic and one of the last attractions that Walt Disney himself had personal involvement. You can make a case that, whatever its shortcomings, Pirates of the Caribbean is a ‘time capsule’ of pop culture and views towards entertainment in the 1960s. For this perspective, you have to ignore the 1990s and Johnny Depp changes, but it’s still an arguably-valid point.
With regard to pirate history, I’m not sure a compelling argument can be made that this is a historically accurate take on pirate history to begin with. Is altering the scenes of something that never purported to reflect actual history really revisionist? Moreover, are we actually confronting the bad acts of pirates in the attraction, or are we celebrating them? This leads me into the next point…
The ‘confronting’ side of presenting the dastardly deeds of pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean is that the attraction is acceptable because it is a cautionary tale. This is most clear in the Disneyland version, but even in the other attractions there are signals (“dead men tell no tales”) in the dialogue, visual imagery, and narrative framing.
Despite these, I’d contend that Pirates of the Caribbean does not proceed as an archetypal morality play. The characters who embody specific vices or bad deeds are not confronted with justice. They neither face nor make any difficult decisions, they do not atone for their sins, and they are not directly punished for choosing the wrong path.
Likewise, the audience is not challenged by the negative attributes of the pirates. They are presented at face value, and that’s pretty much that. Due to the narrative structure of Pirates of the Caribbean, each misdeed is presented as a fleeting vignette, not to be revisited. It does not seem to me as if these scenes are asking the guest for contemplation or to make any sort of value judgment.
Pirates of the Caribbean does not have the touchstones of a morality tale, unless you are willing to infer a lot from its narrative framework. While I mentioned above that an argument could be made that it’s a cautionary tale, I think that’s probably only to the extent of the greed of the pirates. Greed is a concept that can be read broadly, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say, “these pirates died for their greedy act of selling women.”
This is not to say that Pirates of the Caribbean glamorizes piracy. The foreshadowing and general tone of the narrative frameworks suggests pirate life was grim. I don’t see the attraction as a celebration of pirate life. I don’t really see it as a condemnation of pirate life, either. Instead, it falls in a grey area in between, almost a way of saying: “Hey, you know everything that seems fun in the middle? It’s actually not good…but enjoy it anyway!”
I think it’s easy to see how conflicting interpretations of Pirates of the Caribbean can exist. For my part, I don’t think Pirates of the Caribbean has any message whatsoever. My ‘interpretation’ of Pirates of the Caribbean is pretty straightforward: you begin with varying degrees of foreshadowing and foreboding, which serve to build up to the big reveal of the pirates besieging the fort.
Everything that follows is more about offering clever vignettes of wacky stuff pirates do than about telling a linear story into their fall. I doubt that the actual intent with the narrative arc was to give moral heft to the attraction; it was likely for the sake of pacing and building up to the ‘big reveal.’ From that perspective, the question for me is whether ‘wackiness’ is enough to justify a scene like this?
The strongest argument in favor of modifying the scene to something that does not showcase the subjugation of women is changing social norms. While the scene is explicitly depicting human trafficking and sex slavery, I think casting the auction scene as problematic solely in that light misses the point. Most guests are probably not concerned about these heinous acts being normalized for their kids.
Even as bad as those things are (and likely would not be kosher in an attraction built in 2017), I don’t think their depiction is what bothers people about this scene. Just like other “bad acts” in Pirates of the Caribbean, there’s little danger of the normalization of crime and violence by virtue of exposure to Pirates of the Caribbean–we can all agree those are bad things.
I think it’s a false equivalency to compare the auction scene to, say, the scene with Carlos that could be viewed as waterboarding (a comparison I’ve seen made repeatedly online since this news broke). The controversy surrounding the auction scene is not simply about an act, in isolation, that is bad. It’s about how guests perceive and internalize the act.
In the case of waterboarding, there should be little impact (unless, I guess, you’ve been waterboarded before?) on most guests. I don’t think the same can be said for objectifying women. I’m no good at math, but women are probably like half the world’s population, give or take.
The cumulative effect of casual sexism on women is an issue that is now, rightfully, in the public spotlight. What passed in the 1960s as an innocuous gag we now understand could be viewed to normalize misogyny and the objectification of women. While it’s recently become clear plenty of men yearn for the ‘good ole days’ of the 1960s, I’m not particularly keen on societal regression. Just because something was viewed as “okay” for decades does not mean it was, and will always be, okay. Times change.
As someone who has never experienced the ill effects of misogyny, I feel like this is a scenario where it’s not really my place to offer a value judgment on how the redhead auction scene does or does not impact other guests. I don’t know what that’s like to experience the world as a woman.
Even as I want to be able to justify this current auction scene to myself as being important because of artistic integrity or the history of Disneyland and pop culture (and that is exactly what I did as recently as 5 years ago when addressing the topic), I have come around to the perspective that this is selfish. I picture a hypothetical scenario: I have a young daughter, and after experiencing the attraction, she asks about that scene. What do I say? Even if she doesn’t say anything, do I proactively address it? To be honest, I have no idea.
As much as I value my nostalgia and iconic aspects of classic attractions, it feels “right” to err on the side of not reinforcing sexism. The iconic characters will still be there. The attraction will still focus on the pilfering of pirates.
I’m going to open this topic to reader comments, but I want to reiterate that I expect this to be civil. Besides, as persuasive as inflammatory rhetoric, devoid of reason is…actually, it isn’t persuasive at all. If you have a point to make, articulate it logically, and don’t insult others.
My family is going to Disney for the first time in October. So I have no sentimental attachment to the ride. I probably won’t take my family on the ride because I have a 3 year old and I think it would be too scary for her. However, if I were to take my 6 year old son on it, I would prefer to leave the explanations of human trafficking to another time, not while we are at Disney…
I think it’s more appropriate in our time to remove it, because Disney has already chosen to bring pirate culture to a very young audience and has completely ignored the historical context on shows like Jake and the Neverland Pirates. One time I heard Jake say something along the lines of “a good pirate always shares with their friends” I started laughing and my son looked at me like I was crazy.
I think if they want to include the preschool age group in the pirate craze, take out the controversial stuff. If they want to leave it in, stop trying to portray pirates as lovable.
I’m not particularly passionate either way. I’m not offended as a woman by this or anything like that. I am a pretty right wing gal, I just prefer to not expose my kids to anything sexual until they are older.
I want to commend you for being brave in bringing it up. I remember going to Disney the summer it opened and have been back multiple times. Things have changed, some I missed and others I didn’t. I enjoy POC (favorite is Haunted Mansion) and have always thought of it as poking fun at pirates. I don’t look at it as a life lesson just a fantasy. I totally agree that women and many other groups have been treated unfairly over time. I’ve been called little woman and “men” have tried to keep me in my place for many decades. White males have felt their power threatened and have resorted to being mean and acting stupid as a way to defend themselves. As a couple of men used comments to insult others that want all people treated equally or even worse have a liberal mindset. They’re getting all ruffled up by that statement I’m sure. I remember the good ol days. There were some very good points and very bad. Good point was that there were a whole lot more of us moderates! Conservatives used to care about their fellow man and liberals didn’t feel a need to resist. Being civil was the norm! Compromise was a norm! People weren’t libetards for disagreeing with someone who was frightened they were losing control. When you let the concrete in your mind break you’d find liberation and mutual benefit in learning the real people and not the stereotypes corrupt people with power have taught you. Remember an old white guy said the only real thing to fear is fear itself. Is this time going to go down in infamy as a bunch of scared, nasty people who destroyed our environment and culture to resist change and make rich people richer? What I really miss is that everyone didn’t think it was ok to blatantly insult others to prove they weren’t PC! The whole squeaky wheel selfish meanness is disgusting. There shouldn’t be a need to destroy someone else to get your way. Acts of kindness shouldn’t be news worthy but the norm. We have lost the moral high ground on multiple fronts. We’ve become a country to avoid being in terms of civility, compassion, education, health care, environment, being able to succeed or even make a good living. I know you alt right guys are saying if you don’t like it leave! Nope, gonna stand up to the bullies and hope you get over feeling inadequate. I know, you don’t feel inadequate,real strong confident folks don’t feel a need to attack and belittle others. Their character stands for itself as abusive behavior shows the character of others. Tom, may the Force be with you!
.
” also think there’s something to be said for being willing to preserve and confront history, even that which makes us uncomfortable.”
I agree. It’s for that reason I’m sad that Confederate monuments are torn down in NOLA and elsewhere. This isn’t comfronting history. It’s eradicating it. As for Pirates, well; this is a ride. Pirates are uncouth and definitely un-PC. I say keep the current and former scenes (I’m looking at you woman with a rolling pin) as originally presented. But up a sign saying Pirates are as disgusting as they come. I can live with turning the woman in red into a pirate herself, though.
As far as the Pirates attraction….I say leave it alone…..it’s part of what took place in those times. To me by changing it is like saying it never happened …..it’s part of history….you can’t change history by ignoring or pretending that it never took place. Today things are different but this attraction is not about today!
Any personal attacks I see will be marked as spam.
You are welcome to present differing opinions, but do so respectfully.
Well written Tom. Without giving a great deal of thought to the subject, because I have more pressing matters, I look at it as “all or nothing “. No one should take anything that the pirates do in this attraction as acceptable; rape, pillage and plundering are not ok. But in the context of this story it is ok because nobody is hurt and we know it’s not real. I think Pirates of the Caribbean should either be accepted as it was created, or not accepted at all.
I think that Disney plans to film at least one female pirate movie featuring the “red headed pirate.” Johnny Depp will of course have a cameo. If the film has moderate success, I think that Disney will make Vero Beach a pirate resort that would appeal to kids – girls and boys – that like pirates. The fact that changing the wench auction to the female pirate removes a misogynistic message (even though silly) is just added benefit to Disney.
Hello Tom! It is only normal for change to occur periodically with the attractions. The problem is that we have a hard time with it because we become used to the way things are and have a hard time accepting the changes. What’s great is that there is always something new to look forward to on our next Disney trip!
Another iconic Disney masterpiece created by Uncle Walt himself is destroyed by the alt left. It was bad enough when the scene of men chasing women chasing men was defaced by having the women carry pies. Now one of the best scenes in the ride is neutered. Next will we see the pirates wave rainbow ribbons at the castle instead of firing cannons? Will the curse be changed to “deceased individuals tell no tales?” Shame on Disney.
This was a very interesting post and a bit of a different view than I have seen other places.
There is no way that Disney is going to change their mind now that it has been announced so all of the back and forth doesn’t matter from the standpoint of the actual result.
I kept vacillating a bit on how I felt about this. My initial though was ‘ugg . . . it is a ride about pirates, all of it is ‘bad’ what is the big deal’ and I also think that people on both sides of this have taken it to un-warranted extremes.
Do I think that this ride is condoning the sale of women , no. However I do respect that the reality of this in TODAY’s world is what the real issue is.
Pirates are not sailing the seven seas with sails and cannons and bombing forts today, we know that is history — and that some of it is purposefully made light-hearted — which is how pirates have been portrayed in movies and ‘pop-culture’ from before the ride was created through today. I believe that was how the ‘bride auction’ was intended and how I have always seen it. However the sale of women is an issue that is happening now across the world and a ride at a theme park is not the place to be having a ‘moral’ discussion about it with your kids — or even yourself.
I frequently think that people in our society today take things too seriously — I tend to be more on the ‘we are to worried about being PC ‘ side of things, but I have changed my mind about this specific issue The fact that this change DIDN’T happen based on a significant out cry from the public actually re-enforces this for me. Disney isn’t making this change based on the ‘virulent’ side of the politically correct equation, they are doing it because it makes sense in our world today that it doesn’t need to be in the attraction.
We are not riding it to get a history lesson on pirates – at least I don’t think that anyone is.
Thank you for this! One of the best (most balanced) commentaries I’ve seen on this topic since the news broke. I’m not a particularly sensitive person, nor am I one to worry about being up to date on what is and is not PC, but I just visited Disneyland for the first time in May and that scene really bothered me. Perhaps it’s the way the ride casually displays the objectification of women, but, for me, I really think it’s the fact that sex trafficking is huge issue we’re currently trying to combat in this country and abroad. It’s already a challenge to educate the public that sex trafficking is still a major problem in 2017 without it being made light of in a historically popular theme park ride. Seeing the scene in the ride took me back to reality (in one of the worst possible ways) and made me feel sad thinking, even if this is a historically accurate depiction (which you have already suggested that it may not be), the practice is still ongoing today and the victims of sex trafficking probably wouldn’t find the scene innocent or entertaining no matter the intent. As you say, there are reasons to keep the integrity of the originals, particularly the ones Walt had his hand in creating, but I don’t see how the removal of this scene will take anything away from the ride.
I’ve never liked that scene. When I see it, I get a gut reaction. Every time. A feeling I just don’t get in the rest of the ride or in other atractions. I agree with what Tom said about the ride just being what it is – not asking you to take away any more than visiting pirate debauchery for a moment. I usually hate change that involves altering or removing iconic attractions. I love the Jungle Cruise just because it stirs up feelings for me of watching those classic old Disney movies as a kid and dreaming of living with the Swiss Family Robinson kids. But this scene – I usually look away. Sex trafficking and the rape and abuse of women world wide is a horrific reality. Throughout history, and today, there are so many women who are at the mercy of male oppressors. Women who have no choices. If the scene evokes a visceral feeling in me, then it has many. My girls never have asked about that scene, but I have always felt uncomfortable when we go past it. I don’t believe in rewriting history, nor glossing over parts – my children have watched Song of the South, and we have discussed Uncle Remus, Brer Rabbit etc. But this wench scene has never fit for me, nor added to the spirit of the ride. Couldn’t a dastardly female pirate replace it?
I completely agree with you Tom. I am a feminist, and I remember watching that scene as a child and always finding it odd and a little unsettling. It’s one of my favorite rides and I have just decided to over look that part, but I’m glad they’re changing it. Also, to my knowledge they are still keeping the redhead and the scene won’t be so different. I really don’t get why some are so distraught over it because Walt Disney always said that change and innovation was always part of the magic. Rides will always change to fit the times better.
Pirates is a staple visit for me and my family. We actually laugh at the part where the ladies are being auctioned off. I myself, being a female, and my kids know it is just for fun and to show how ornery Pirates could be, Not that there is any truth to it. I am always open for improvement, I just hope the change is for the sake of change and improvement, not to accommodate our current “oversensitive population”. Have a great July 4th everyone!!
Very interesting discussion! I personally don’t like the Pirates of the Caribbean ride but I appreciate others may enjoy it as it’s been around for years and is part of their Disney experience. I personally don’t agree with it being allowed to objectifying women and make light of women being sold. I can understand as children we may find this funny — but look at this through the eyes of an adult; why is a woman being sold? Why are we entertained by it? Why are we teaching children this is ok?
This (not so) subtle message adds to the idea that men are better than women and women deserve to be treated differently than men (in this case sold as possessions). Incase of sounding bias against women, I’ll add that I wouldn’t agree to this being the other way round — why should we be entertained by people being sold?
Yes it happened at the time, but so did slavery? Yes it’s been a part of Disney for years but to keep it simply for nostalgia sake is unreasonable?!
I’ll leave you with this last thought by taking gender out of the equation…would we find the ride as enjoyable if slaves were being sold?
Very good points! You may have changed my vote. Would we chuckle at a scene of slaves being sold at the Haunted Mansion? We we justify it because it was history? Thank you.
I am as feminst as they come, and I’ve never been offended by that part of PotC. I think it is kind of sad that they feel the need to change it. I also find all the controversy with 45 and the Hall of Presidents interesting. The only thing I’ve been bothered by at Disney is part of my favorite ride. I’m a Halloween enthusiast and Haunted Mansion is by far my favorite theme park ride, ever and anywhere. However, in recent years I’ve been unsettled by the hanging ghost in the beginning of the ride. I had an uncle that hanged himself, and my family has a history of mental illness. I do volunteer work for the AFSP, and the more I think about it, the more I believe that a depiction of suicide has no part in a theme park. Makes me sad because it is my favorite ride.
Well, the good news is that the refurbishment isn’t planned until sometime in 2018, so fans will have an opportunity to get last laughs, and their share of “we wants the redhead” t-shirts and coffee mugs (take care not to run it through the dishwasher!) before the scene is gone for good.
My kids are teenagers now and have been going to Disney since they were little. Never one time have they asked what that scene or any scene means. They enjoy the ride and are more than ready to get to the next ride. Period! Only the overanalyzing PC crybabies get their panties in a bunch over this and Disney runs to appease them. Sad!
When we went to DisneyWorld last October and experienced this attraction, I felt a degree of discomfort with that auction scene. My 8 year old granddaughter didn’t comment on it, and it wasn’t discussed at all.
I have mixed feelings. As a retired English teacher, I loathe the idea of editing content for the sake of current morality (kid versions of Shakespeare or Chaucer for instance), but a the same time glamorizing a particularly ugly facet of history in an attraction that is implicitly directed at children also doesn’t ring true.
I don’t want to live in the world of *A Handmaid’s Tale,* but on the other hand, neither do I want to glamorize offensive acts. This is a tough call for everyone.
Thank You, what a beautiful point of view.
Ironically, when searching Google, I see only a couple passing complaints about the Redhead scene being offensive. Yet, there are at least a dozen complaints here about the change, and it being caused by overly-sensitive people.
Maybe it’s time for some self-evaluation if a change to robots causes you to become irrationally upset or offended. Maybe a sign you’re too sensitive?
I wholeheartedly agree. Disney made this change on its own, and it’s the anti-PC crowd that’s getting their “panties in a bunch” as they’re so fond of saying, never mind the fact that this particular choice of phrasing only proves our point about how casually misogyny still reigns in the USA. (And don’t get me started on the “cool girl” women commenters who are quick to say, “I’m a woman, it doesn’t offend me!” Congrats on buying into the patriarchy, I guess?)
If someone is so upset about the removal of a scene that depicts women being sold into sexual slavery, it may be time to do some self-analyzation. Women and children are still being sold by human traffickers around the world. Just because this issue doesn’t affect the typical American tourist, that doesn’t mean it’s funny. We refresh old jokes when they’ve become tired or offensive, otherwise we’d still be laughing at comedians doing black or yellow-face bits. This “gag” has run its course. It’s OK to move on.