Pirates of the Caribbean Redhead Auction Scene Changing: the Debate
If you haven’t heard by now, Disney announced that it would be updating Pirates of the Caribbean at Walt Disney World and Disneyland to remove the ‘Redhead Wench Auction Scene’ and replace it with a new auction scene. This was easily the most controversial Disney news since…eh…about 48 hours before. (Last updated February 26, 2018.)
I don’t have anything to add in terms of news beyond what the Disney Parks Blog shared. So, if that’s all you want, go there. Instead, I wanted to offer some commentary on this. I feel this news has not necessarily been a conversation so much as a shouting match guided by underlying political(ish) views.
Update: Pirates of the Caribbean has now returned from refurbishment, and the new scene has debuted. It pretty much is identical to the concept art, and while there are a couple of cheesy lines of dialogue in the new scene, or analysis of the new Auction scene is pretty much the same as it was when we saw the initial concept art…
I know I’m essentially putting my entire head into the hornet’s nest here, but I think this is an interesting topic that pertains to the intersection of art, history, evolving cultural norms, and more. I also believe it’s a conversation capable of being had without ad hominem attacks…
I think the first, and strongest, argument in favor of maintaining Pirates of the Caribbean is artistic integrity. We’ve discussed theme parks as art on the blog before; the unfortunate reality is that most people do not view theme parks, or the attractions therein, as art. I don’t think it’s a snobbish thing, but rather that (like video games) most people have never really given theme parks that type of consideration.
When viewed as art, there are some practical realities that must be considered and concessions that must be made given their functional purpose. Refreshing Carousel of Progress’ final act is not like painting a mustache on the Mona Lisa. Likewise, you cannot expect Future World to be forever unchanged–the very theme dictates otherwise. Extreme examples, to be sure, but the point stands. There’s more fluidity to theme parks than other art; things must be updated.
However, there must be a line. Arguably, you approach that line when the conversation involves updating classic attractions–the masterpieces. If the change is change for its own sake or so a new generation of Imagineers can leave their mark–neither of which would actually improve on the attraction–it should not be made. (While I do not think this is change for its own sake, the replacement auction scene does not make a ton of sense in the context of the ride–but that’s another topic for another post.)
The question is: where do updates that fit with evolving cultural norms and values fit into that? Do we reject such changes, acknowledging that the attraction was a product of a different era, when certain gags and jokes would’ve been okay that are cringeworthy today, and appreciate it as art of its generation? Or, do we view Pirates of the Caribbean through a contemporary lens, and expect its content to comport with today’s values?
I’m not sure there’s an easy answer to that, and it certainly doesn’t help that there is not really a body of art theory (or even an ongoing discussion about parks as art) to provide guidance. Usually, art must be confronted on the terms of its day, as it does not change over time. The best example of art being changed decades later that we really have is the revisionism of the E.T. walkie talkies controversy, but that’s different…or is it?
I also think there’s something to be said for being willing to preserve and confront history, even that which makes us uncomfortable. Revisionist history is a problem, and if we don’t face our mistakes, we’re bound to repeat them. There are two components to this: pirate history and American history.
In the case of American history, the case can be made that Pirates of the Caribbean is not just significant as a Disneyland classic and one of the last attractions that Walt Disney himself had personal involvement. You can make a case that, whatever its shortcomings, Pirates of the Caribbean is a ‘time capsule’ of pop culture and views towards entertainment in the 1960s. For this perspective, you have to ignore the 1990s and Johnny Depp changes, but it’s still an arguably-valid point.
With regard to pirate history, I’m not sure a compelling argument can be made that this is a historically accurate take on pirate history to begin with. Is altering the scenes of something that never purported to reflect actual history really revisionist? Moreover, are we actually confronting the bad acts of pirates in the attraction, or are we celebrating them? This leads me into the next point…
The ‘confronting’ side of presenting the dastardly deeds of pirates in Pirates of the Caribbean is that the attraction is acceptable because it is a cautionary tale. This is most clear in the Disneyland version, but even in the other attractions there are signals (“dead men tell no tales”) in the dialogue, visual imagery, and narrative framing.
Despite these, I’d contend that Pirates of the Caribbean does not proceed as an archetypal morality play. The characters who embody specific vices or bad deeds are not confronted with justice. They neither face nor make any difficult decisions, they do not atone for their sins, and they are not directly punished for choosing the wrong path.
Likewise, the audience is not challenged by the negative attributes of the pirates. They are presented at face value, and that’s pretty much that. Due to the narrative structure of Pirates of the Caribbean, each misdeed is presented as a fleeting vignette, not to be revisited. It does not seem to me as if these scenes are asking the guest for contemplation or to make any sort of value judgment.
Pirates of the Caribbean does not have the touchstones of a morality tale, unless you are willing to infer a lot from its narrative framework. While I mentioned above that an argument could be made that it’s a cautionary tale, I think that’s probably only to the extent of the greed of the pirates. Greed is a concept that can be read broadly, but I think it’s a pretty big stretch to say, “these pirates died for their greedy act of selling women.”
This is not to say that Pirates of the Caribbean glamorizes piracy. The foreshadowing and general tone of the narrative frameworks suggests pirate life was grim. I don’t see the attraction as a celebration of pirate life. I don’t really see it as a condemnation of pirate life, either. Instead, it falls in a grey area in between, almost a way of saying: “Hey, you know everything that seems fun in the middle? It’s actually not good…but enjoy it anyway!”
I think it’s easy to see how conflicting interpretations of Pirates of the Caribbean can exist. For my part, I don’t think Pirates of the Caribbean has any message whatsoever. My ‘interpretation’ of Pirates of the Caribbean is pretty straightforward: you begin with varying degrees of foreshadowing and foreboding, which serve to build up to the big reveal of the pirates besieging the fort.
Everything that follows is more about offering clever vignettes of wacky stuff pirates do than about telling a linear story into their fall. I doubt that the actual intent with the narrative arc was to give moral heft to the attraction; it was likely for the sake of pacing and building up to the ‘big reveal.’ From that perspective, the question for me is whether ‘wackiness’ is enough to justify a scene like this?
The strongest argument in favor of modifying the scene to something that does not showcase the subjugation of women is changing social norms. While the scene is explicitly depicting human trafficking and sex slavery, I think casting the auction scene as problematic solely in that light misses the point. Most guests are probably not concerned about these heinous acts being normalized for their kids.
Even as bad as those things are (and likely would not be kosher in an attraction built in 2017), I don’t think their depiction is what bothers people about this scene. Just like other “bad acts” in Pirates of the Caribbean, there’s little danger of the normalization of crime and violence by virtue of exposure to Pirates of the Caribbean–we can all agree those are bad things.
I think it’s a false equivalency to compare the auction scene to, say, the scene with Carlos that could be viewed as waterboarding (a comparison I’ve seen made repeatedly online since this news broke). The controversy surrounding the auction scene is not simply about an act, in isolation, that is bad. It’s about how guests perceive and internalize the act.
In the case of waterboarding, there should be little impact (unless, I guess, you’ve been waterboarded before?) on most guests. I don’t think the same can be said for objectifying women. I’m no good at math, but women are probably like half the world’s population, give or take.
The cumulative effect of casual sexism on women is an issue that is now, rightfully, in the public spotlight. What passed in the 1960s as an innocuous gag we now understand could be viewed to normalize misogyny and the objectification of women. While it’s recently become clear plenty of men yearn for the ‘good ole days’ of the 1960s, I’m not particularly keen on societal regression. Just because something was viewed as “okay” for decades does not mean it was, and will always be, okay. Times change.
As someone who has never experienced the ill effects of misogyny, I feel like this is a scenario where it’s not really my place to offer a value judgment on how the redhead auction scene does or does not impact other guests. I don’t know what that’s like to experience the world as a woman.
Even as I want to be able to justify this current auction scene to myself as being important because of artistic integrity or the history of Disneyland and pop culture (and that is exactly what I did as recently as 5 years ago when addressing the topic), I have come around to the perspective that this is selfish. I picture a hypothetical scenario: I have a young daughter, and after experiencing the attraction, she asks about that scene. What do I say? Even if she doesn’t say anything, do I proactively address it? To be honest, I have no idea.
As much as I value my nostalgia and iconic aspects of classic attractions, it feels “right” to err on the side of not reinforcing sexism. The iconic characters will still be there. The attraction will still focus on the pilfering of pirates.
I’m going to open this topic to reader comments, but I want to reiterate that I expect this to be civil. Besides, as persuasive as inflammatory rhetoric, devoid of reason is…actually, it isn’t persuasive at all. If you have a point to make, articulate it logically, and don’t insult others.
How about if we add some female Pirates buying husbands? Then it’s equal. Should the Pirates all sit down nicely to tea with the townsfolk? Its meant to be a tongue in cheek nod to Pirate history. Don’t over think it.
Actually there is a revenge scene just after the auction. One of the women who married a pirate is chasing him around with a broom ready to whack him on the head. Are we promoting violence?
This goes right in line with removing lines from The Night Before Christmas poem:
“The stump of a pipe he held tight in his teeth,
And the smoke, it encircled his head like a wreath”
Are we going to start changing Shakespeare’s plays because he has scandal, murder, & prostitution rampant throughout many of his works? I have an idea, let’s stop teaching his works in schools despite the literary value because he was a chauvinist pig. In fact, let’s stop teaching all of history because it portrays a period in our history that is infavorable in today’s overzealous politically-correct society. And let’s take down any and all artwork that portrays people doing bad things or any graphic nudity as well, because that’s not REAL art.
Come on people, this is RIDICULOUS! This is art and entertainment. If you’re so easily offended, you probably shouldn’t step out of your house and visit any museum, library, coffee shop, Walmart, theme park, or public space of any time. A ride that was created 40 years ago shouldn’t be considered offensive, this is just RIDICULOUS.
I totally agree with Adam B. If we start changing everything to be politically correct, we will have nothing. Just throw away all the history books and the art, etc. etc.
Both my children (a boy and a girl) went through :Pirates” many times. They never once asked me for an explanation of that scene or any other scene.
Some one made the comment Disney is not educational; it is entertainmnet. They are wrong. It is very educational — limited examples: Hall of Presidents, American Adventure, all the countries in Epcot, and the list goes on.
Great article and a great take on the matter. I guess my question is, is it no different than watching a movie? To the ET point, if that’s what FBI agents would be holding, then so be it. The only dog I have in this fight is, I’ll miss Paul Frees’ voice….sad to see that go.
Thank you for such a great + thoughtful overview of the issue!
The changes make me really happy. I’m usually a park-changes Grinch: things like the It’s a Small World Disney characters or the new Mansion queue were not my jam. I like sticking close to the original vision.
But those bits of the Pirates ride make me uncomfortable and sad, two emotions I don’t want to be feeling at Disneyland. I don’t enjoy thinking about rape or and sex slavery. I don’t want to see people crying because they have been enslaved. Those topics bring up a lot of emotions for me.
“it’s accurate history” doesn’t counterbalance those feelings sufficiently. The main goal of Disney is entertainment, not education. And there are lots of other rides which are entirely sanitised of any politics or historic ugliness: the New Orleans plantation house Mansion makes zero reference to race (maybe we could move the sex slave anamatronics there instead as ghosts, to teach kids about the history of plantations…?), the Jungle Cruise says nothing about colonialism, and the whole of Frontierland has minimal references to Native Americans, and none to genocide. Splash Mountain is based on characters from Song of the South, but carefully avoids the racial politics and context associated with that film. A rape-themed diorama would fit into any of those rides as well as it does Pirates. Because history is a pretty ugly place, that’s for sure.
But Disney is a family theme park, and Pirates is a toe-tapping, theme-humming ride where kids want to buy a pirate costume in the gift shop. And including that scene is certainly NOT a decision Imagineers would make today, if they were designing from scratch.
Tldr: I find that bit of the ride upsetting, never mind the kids. I am insufficiently convinced thst historic accuracy is a good reason to keep it. I support the change, but hope it can be accomplished in a way that matches the rest of the ride and isn’t too jarring.
I agree 100%!
I have been a going to Disney since its opening 1972, and POC has been a favorite for my family. I never questioned the auction, my children never questioned it and my grankids havent either. Its Disney World, its fantasy, its silly. The politically correct world is starting to tick me off. Why is everything over-thought???
Ps hated loosing the Bakery on Mainstreet to Starbucks too!!!
Don’t you think it’s a problem you never even questioned it? It’s a Disney ride, and women are being sold to be used as sex slaves.
There are some stereotypes and negative depictions of people that we no longer tolerate. For example, we have Splash Mountain, but they were careful not to include all of the negative stereotypes of African-Americans from the movie “Song of the South.” There’s just no need to make people feel uncomfortable with stereotypes. Similarly, we have Liberty Square, which is supposed to depict what it was like in colonial America. Yet, we don’t expect to see slaves in Liberty Square, even though that’s historically accurate. Could you imagine how offensive that would be?
So, the problem I see is with so many women on this post commenting that they never even QUESTIONED the fact that women were being bartered and sold for human trafficking. They were being sold as sex slaves, and you didn’t care? You didn’t question it? That’s shocking and sad to me, and that’s why I think it needs to change. People shouldn’t think that it’s normal for women to be treated as objects to be sold. Seeing it in a theme park normalizes it.
Thank you for this thoughtful and articulate post, Tom. Although I don’t really care whether or not the wench scene is altered (and people seem to keep forgetting that in their anti-PC diatribes: it’s just being ALTERED, not removed entirely and left as an empty space), I rolled my eyes when it was announced because I knew that people were going to lose their freakin’ minds over it and use it as an excuse to go on a rant about “crazy liberals” and the “PC police.” It’s remarkable to me that the people who constantly accuse others of being crybabies and snowflakes are the ones having a hissy-fit over a relatively minor change that won’t impact the storyline anymore than the addition of Jack Sparrow did.
The Pirates ride has been changed over the years but not materially. This is one of the few rides that Walt had involvement in. It’s one thing to create effects that help tell the story but it’s another entirely to change the context of the story.
The imagineers are so capable of giving us great thins at the Disney parks that I think they will do a good job at redesigning the scene. When I first read of the redesign of the scene, I was bummed out because I really don’t want the classic and very solid attraction altered to the point that I don’t recognize it from the original that I grew to love. It is and has been a favorite of mine for many years. I wondered why they are doing this after it was just redone 2 years ago (2015) while there are obviously other attractions in much more dire need of attention. You mentioned The Carousel of Progress while I immediately thought of Journey to Imagination (horrible and boring). Even adding some elements to the dark part of the Transit Authority People Mover would be money well spent. Anyway, times change and the world feels meaner and more dangerous than it did when I was a child of the 70s. A scene in which women are being sold for whatever reason no longer has a place in a park meant for family fun and good times.
Very well stated!
Looking back over the comments, it seems there is someone that has a complaint about pretty much every ride. Oh what a slippery slope they’re on. Hopefully this was a proactive move and not a reaction.
I’m scared to look at all the comments, which are not painting a great picture of the Disney community. Tom, I really enjoyed your even-handed look at this issue. I do have two daughters (8 and 4), and while I haven’t been asked about the scene directly, I’m sure it will happen eventually. I don’t feel like Disney needs to remove this scene to protect my girls. However, I also don’t have a big issue with Disney removing it. Your point about not reinforcing sexism is where I stand too. I’m mostly a traditionalist when it comes to Disney attractions (especially with EPCOT Center), but in this case I’m in a different camp.
What Disney really needs to change and update to reflect a PC world is the cars in tomorrow land; nothing futuristic about that. Lets see gas guzzling fossile fuel burning symbol of GLOBAL WARMING…… I would like to see solar battery powered cars used. Need a sponsor…. Elon Musk. Oh how funny critics are…. Miss the obvious in daylight…….
AMEN! You hit the nail on the head, kudos!
Leave it be! I’m so tired of the PC police trying to “fix” everything to please everybody. It’s history, it happened. My 4 children who are now in college or finished with college have been going thru the Pirates ride before they could barely walk and they are not scarred for life. Most kids don’t even take notice and if they do, I’m always one for a simple truthful answer enough to satisfy their curiosity. It’s when you make a big deal about any controversial subject it becomes a problem…and FYI , I am very conservative in my views and upbringing.
Leave it be! I’m so tired of the PC police trying to “fix” everything to please everybody. It’s history, it happened. My 4 children who are now in college or finished with college have been going thru the Pirates ride before they could barely walk and they are not scarred for life. Most kids don’t even take notice and if they do, I’m always one for a simple truthful answers enough to satisfy their curiosity. It’s when you make a big deal about any controversial subject it becomes a problem…and FYI , I am very conservative in my views and upbringing.
Tom, you can definitely be sensitive about it and not want to possibly, maybe offend someone, but understand that the PC Police are never satisfied with a single victory. Next it will be Bret Rabbit is racist and Splash Mountain must be re-themed, then Gaston will not be allowed to act the way he does at meets in new Fantasyland, next we will want to leave out certain Presidents that don’t hold our political views from the Hall of Presidents.
Am I being extreme or setting up a “straw man”? Actually no, those are common complaints from the “tolerant” crew that can’t tolerate a fictional scene where guys that are clearly bad act that way. The people that have pretended that evil doesn’t exist have often been on the wrong side throughout history. And like you said, if we don’t know our history, we are bound to repeat it.
I think the difference is in how these offensive actions are treated? It all depends on context, and I guess in this case the context (+ current political atmosphere?), Disney sought to err on the side of caution instead. I can’t talk about Splash Mountain (I’ve never ridden the ride, and I feel like the source material isn’t something that’s familiar to the casual parkgoer anyway), but Gaston at least comes from a canon that would be familiar to the casual parkgoer, where his behaviour is treated as the reason why he’s the “villain” of the tale? So even though he’s acting the way he is, everyone knows he’s the villain and that’s bad. On the other hand, Pirates doesn’t quite have that deterrent, I feel? Like yeah, ooh, pirates are bad!!! Obviously what they do is bad as well! But pirates are still treated as exciting in pop culture and kids still playact as pirates. And with PotC the movie series, they’re the protagonists and the heroes as well, and I suspect with Disney, the change is about their image as much as anything. PotC the ride isn’t intended to be edutainment in the way that Epcot is; just because something is historically accurate doesn’t mean it needs to be shown in this ride. I don’t think many of these so-called “PC Police” (which… what) are trying to pretend evil doesn’t exist inasmuch as asking for consideration to have a break from seeing the same evil on their vacation that they already deal with during their day-to-day lives. I’m sure there are some people who call for everything bad to not be presented at all, but from my years of experience in fandoms, these are usually very vocal minorities on the extremes, and Disney wouldn’t listen to them anyway. Because there’s no money in that lol.
(Also, you talk like if people want to be considered tolerant, they must even tolerate abuse being hurled at them, like, nah. That’s just toxic for anyone’s mental health; the people hurling abuse ain’t gonna give the same consideration, and saying that the people being hurt should tolerate it is just another tool for the abusers to use at their victims. “Oh, but I thought you were so ~tolerant~ how come you’re not tolerating me hurting you?” and then using that as a reason they should be allowed to keep hurling abuse. People who are actively trying to hurt others shouldn’t be supported or tolerated, I feel. Unless you want to hurt others too?)
Like, it’s great that the auction scene doesn’t bother you! But evidently it has bothered enough people that Disney is taking steps to change that. Let’s be real, there had to be enough of an outcry and people bothered to get Disney to change, because, again, they’re a for-profit company and all about the $$$. They wouldn’t change it just for the sake of it. IT’S ALL ABOUT THE $$$$$$$. And in the grand scheme of things, the change is really not that big a deal. The scene was not instrumental to the narrative of the PotC ride. And no, this change is not a slippery slope, and if it is, it’s only a slippery slope toward trying to have higher customer satisfaction, and /that in and of itself is not necessarily a bad thing/.
I wish that they would remove the scenes of the women chasing men around with rolling pins. Those make me cringe.The redhead scene never bothered me even though both scenes are sexist. Adding lady adventurers to any scene I think always falls in the “win” column, though.
Statistic say that 1 out of 5 American women will be raped in their lifetime. Disney is supposed to be the happiest place on earth. If this change helps even one woman forget her rape and enjoy the day, why is it so bad to make the change? Why is compassion for those women less important than our childhood nostalgia? And why should anyone have to explain that scene to a young child?
I
I never had to explain a scene to my kids, they were smarter than that; and lets not forget that all the “brides” waiting to be auctioned are either happy about it or portrayed in a comical way. ITS HISTORY PEOPLE! if your too sensitive for it-DONT GO ON THE RIDE! The Tiki Room is just around the corner-or is that too scary for people too.
+1 Stephanie, Mike
I too visited last week and thought, “what the heck?” as we floated by that auction scene! I’d been by it a half dozen times over my sixty years and thought nothing of it — but certainly this time I turned to my friend with me – who was sitting on the OTHER side of my eleven year old granddaughter and thought — “WHAT DID I JUST SEE AND HEAR!?” Believe it or not time and experience do change our hearts! I was embarrassed to have my granddaughter see that scene — but you know what — we just sailed on by and all forgot about it once we moved on!
Happy that they’re changing it. It’s dated and disturbing and the attraction will be better without it.
It’s time.
Political correctness and crazy liberalism ran amock in this country over the 8 Obama years. Conservatives rose up in big numbers to take back our country. Disney is a very liberal company. Not a thing we can do about that except write letters and boycott.
Leave the ride alone. Leave the confederate flag and monuments alone. The confederate flag was battle flag. Young men, too poor to ever even consider owning a slave, died fighting northern aggression. The KKK adopted that flag, long after the civil war. The more liberal Americans tell people not to fly that flag, the more flags or sold. After the Charleston attack, you could buy a confederate flag. They sold out almost overnight. Stop trying to change history.
Errr me Maties, Keep the Red Headed Wench Auction, Lets Things be Told as they Were, Not fer some Weak Feelings, Errrr!