Reflections Lakeside Lodge at Disney World
Walt Disney World announced Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge, a new nature-inspired resort for the former River Country water park location along the shore of Bay Lake between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. This development would be mixed use, with both hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. (Updated September 15, 2023.)
Originally announced back in October 2018, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge will “be a celebration of Walt Disney’s lifelong love and respect for nature” with more than 900 hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. Reflections resort was slated to be the 16th Disney Vacation Club property, part of a significant expansion on the hotel side of Walt Disney World. That plan would have brought a total of more than 1,700 new hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas online over four years.
Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge was further elaborated upon at the 2019 D23 Expo, and it was billed as one of the “most unique resorts ever built” at Walt Disney World. Concept art was shared of the novel accommodations, including both treehouse suites and waterfront A-frame cabins that would be available at the resort. Reflections — A Disney Lakeside Lodge would also feature a restaurant inspired by Princess and the Frog, located “along the bayou of Bay Lake.”
September 15, 2023 Update: Let’s start by bringing you up to speed, as this is the first time we’ve had an update on Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge in over 3 years. Back when the parks closed and all construction stopped, Walt Disney World mothballed the construction site for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.
The project was effectively cancelled and crews on site removed concrete and rebar. At that point, pretty much all that had occurred was site clearing and staging for construction to begin. The project had yet to begin foundation work, let alone vertical construction. Fast-forward three years, and it’s essentially an empty parcel. The future home of Reflections is still very much visible from California Grill or even the boat en route to Wilderness Lodge–it’s the big empty area amidst the trees.
Today’s development is that Florida has granted Walt Disney Imagineering a 5-year extension on a permit related to the construction of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. That permit will now expire on May 31, 2028. Note that this permit is not for the Reflections site itself, it’s for the STOLport Site–near the former Walt Disney World Airport, with STOLport standing for Short Take-Off and Landing. Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge wouldn’t be built on the STOLport site, but it would act as a convenient staging ground located between the TTC and Fort Wilderness.
It’s entirely possible that the STOLport is intended to be used as a staging site for something else, but Imagineering addressed Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge in its extension request, asserting that it was needed because the project was shut down during COVID-19, which therefore delayed the completion of the project. To be honest, I don’t have enough experience with this sort of thing to know whether it’d be appropriate to request an extension in this manner for a materially different project.
In the intervening years since Reflections was mothballed/cancelled/delayed indefinitely, a trio of new Disney Vacation Club projects in the Magic Kingdom resort area has been announced, indirectly replacing Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. The first and smallest of these was at Walt Disney World’s flagship resort, converting one outlying building to new Resort Studios at the Grand Floridian. That project wrapped up last year and is now available for sale.
The next of these is the New DVC Tower at Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort (pictured above), which is currently under construction and is slated to open in late 2024 at Walt Disney World. Based on the incredibly quick pace with which that expansion is being built, there’s no reason to believe it’ll be delayed. This will be a license to print money for DVC, as everyone loves the Poly.
Finally, there’s the Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort – A Disney Vacation Club Resort (concept art below). This was announced earlier this year and work has not yet started, but these are slated to open in 2024–potentially before the Poly tower. The new cabins being pre-fabricated off-site and installed unit-by-unit, not built on location. Accordingly, the turnaround time could be a matter of months from start to finish. This is the project that could theoretically be using the STOLport Site for staging, but I wonder whether that’s even necessary. I assume these things are build hundreds of miles away and trucked in–is a staging site necessary?
The other reason it’s worth drawing attention to these projects is because there are a lot of them. In addition to this trio, the Villas at Disneyland Hotel just went on sale earlier this year and will open in September 2023. Then there’s Disney’s Riviera Resort and Aulani in Hawaii, the latter of which has been on sale for years now; there’s a decent chance Aulani will never sell out of DVC points.
While Disney Vacation Club has demonstrated a willingness to go full steam ahead on new projects, there are already a lot of them underway. This is significant because it means a ton of points being sold simultaneously, and numerous resorts competing with one another for the attention of buyers.
This is all happening as there’s been something of a Disney Vacation Club Sales Slump. That’s occurring against the backdrop of rising interest rates, slowing consumer spending, and the possibility of a recession in the next year or two.
It thus seems ostensibly unlikely that Disney Vacation Club will resume Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge anytime soon. They’ve started too many projects and have too much for sale right now already. However, it’s not just the permit. That alone could be ignored or explained away as pertaining to another project, housekeeping, or Imagineering wanting to keep its options open.
In addition to the STOLport permit, there are rumblings that Reflections will soon be revived. Nothing concrete or specific, but there’s enough smoke that this seems plausible. Personally, I’m skeptical as this doesn’t make a ton of sense on its face. I’m also increasingly open to the possibility based on current rumors.
Reflections resuming defies past precedent and would’ve been deemed crazy even ~5 years ago, back when Disney Vacation Club didn’t announce the next project (and literally denied the existence of construction occurring in plain view), but a lot has changed since. Back then, DVC tried to space its additions so they wouldn’t directly competing with one another and cannibalize sales. Announcements for the next DVC property didn’t start until sales were healthy and had progressed for the previous one.
Things have changed more recently, and Disney Vacation Club has had several properties for sale simultaneously for the last several years. There hasn’t been hesitation in announcing the next big expansion or starting construction–it seems like there’s been a philosophy change. Perhaps now Disney Vacation Club is fine with a larger number of properties being available for sale, with the thought process that more variety equals greater consumer choice and a higher likelihood of selling memberships. (After all, they’re all going to sell out eventually…well, maybe minus Aulani!)
Another possibility is that Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge is on the precipice of resuming, but not as a Disney Vacation Club project. At least, not right away. Walt Disney World needs more hotel inventory, too. There’s nothing to say this previously mixed-use development couldn’t start as a hotel project, but be built with the long-term intentions of “conversion” to Disney Vacation Club when point supply and demand dictated as much. That does seem very plausible to me, and might be what Walt Disney World opts to do. (In that case, I wonder how they message the ‘nature’ of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.)
A final possibility is that the Fort Wilderness Cabins project has been scrapped, or at least abandoned as a Disney Vacation Club development. It’s my understanding that the existing cabins are slated for replacement one way or another, but there’s nothing to say they couldn’t remain as a hotel inventory. Or maybe they’ll be rolled into the Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge condo association–who knows!
Regardless of what happens in the near-term, it’s pretty safe to say that the Reflections site will be developed at some point down the road. Walt Disney World only has so much prime parcels for resorts, and this is one of them. Not only that, but a lot of the site prepwork was already done and it’s still in pretty good condition. It just makes sense for construction to happen here in the future, and my guess would be that it starts before 2030.
Whether that’s Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge or a totally new concept is anyone’s guess. I’d speculate that the further removed we get from the prior mothballing/delay/cancellation, the more likely it is that Disney will revisit both the name and the concept. Even if this project were re-announced tomorrow, I think the odds are pretty good that the concept art would look materially different and the name wouldn’t be the same.
Turning to my original commentary, I love Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. I’m a Disney Vacation Club member. In theory, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge seems perfectly tailored to some of my favorite things about Walt Disney World. I want to love the idea of the River Country parcel finally being redeveloped, instead of rotting in plain sight. I’m truly hopeful for the best here.
Unfortunately, like pretty much every Fort Wilderness fan, I’m very apprehensive about this Disney Vacation Club project (well, mixed-use, but presumably mostly DVC). Part of what makes Fort Wilderness special is that it’s been relatively undisturbed by time, and is one of the last bastions of “Vacation Kingdom of the World” era of WDW.
It’s almost remarkable how different Fort Wilderness feels from the rest of Walt Disney World—even its neighbor, Wilderness Lodge. It’s almost as if Walt Disney World leadership has forgotten about Fort Wilderness, and it hasn’t seen the same fiscal mandates, changes in emphasis, or character as every other resort over the last couple decades. In large part, it’s been doing its thing, more or less unchanged since the 1990s.
There’s a very legitimate concern, especially after seeing how the Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge projects at Wilderness Lodge unfolded, that any expansion at or around Fort Wilderness will destroy the primitive and secluded characteristics of the campground that give it so much appeal. After all, this is a campground with wilderness right in the name–the environment is the heart and soul of Fort Wilderness.
The development of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge doesn’t necessarily have to destroy the tranquil and secluded atmosphere of Fort Wilderness, but that seems like a very distinct possibility. Disney’s recent approach to developing hotels adjacent to existing resorts doesn’t inspire much confidence, and if there’s a ham-fisted approach when clearing land or an overzealous mentality when it comes to the size or proximity of the resort to the campground, it will be incredibly detrimental to Fort Wilderness.
As for the design, only a couple pieces of concept art have been released, and they’re nothing special. I don’t want to rush to judgment here, as I think there is potential for this to end up being interesting once more is released, but right now it looks like a fairly generic hotel with some modern rustic flourishes.
On the plus side, Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo (WATG) is the lead designer for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge, and they have a very good track record with Disney. They designed the original Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, along with Disney hotels in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong.
If this were a decade or two ago, I might be more deferential to Disney with regard to this concept art. However, the last several years have shown that Walt Disney World is very hit or miss with resort development and redesigns, skewing towards boring designs. It seems the approach is to choose the most middle-of-the-road offerings as possible so as to not alienate those with bland tastes.
When you compare Walt Disney World resorts built before the mid-1990s to ones built or redesigned in the last few years, there’s generally a clear division. Contemporary projects are often interchangeable with real world Holiday Inns or other mid-tier chained brand hotels.
Look at the difference between BoardWalk Inn or Beach Club and the new Gran Destino Tower at Coronado or Disney’s Riviera Resort. Don’t get me wrong–I like both for the amenities they offer, luxuriousness, and room designs. However, the exteriors of both leave a lot to be desired, and neither are exactly exemplars of themed design. (Admittedly, they have both grown on me a lot, but I still wish they were more ornate or unique.)
One explanation is that Disney wants to make things as crowd-pleasing as possible so as to not alienate any potential customers. The thing about this approach is that when you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one.
Another explanation is that Imagineering’s talents are spread too thin. I know some readers might only follow the projects at Walt Disney World, but every single property around the world has huge projects in various stages of development or construction.
In the past when less was occurring simultaneously, maybe some top-tier Imagineering talent who “got” Disney’s distinct approach to hotels worked on a resort project. Now? Maybe they’re mostly designers who view working for WDI as “just another job” no different than Best Western or IHG.
Along those same lines, with so many projects in development, it’s entirely possible–if not probable–that leadership in the Parks & Resorts division is trying to trim the budget from each one, cutting aspects or details viewed as superfluous.
The problem is that those leaders are not creatives, and their experience is often in consumer products or other division of the company. They have absolutely no insight into what details are actually superfluous, and what are necessary for reinforcing theme or creating a sense of immersion.
Ultimately, more concept art could be released that’s really good. The project could employ a deft hand when developing around Fort Wilderness in a way that doesn’t damage that landscape. (Disney, just think of how much you could pat yourselves on the back by utilizing eco-friendly and sustainable construction practices–it’d be worth it in the PR alone!) It could end up being really good–a true tribute to both Walt Disney’s love of nature, but the spirit of River Country, which was never coming back anyway.
I’m cautiously optimistic that’s what could end up happening, but I think it’s equally likely that we’ll get a generically modern and vaguely rustic design. It’s also more likely that instead of eco-friendly construction that preserves the natural beauty and wilderness of the area, we get excessive tree clearing for the construction, and an end product akin to Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge in terms of wide walkways and bare grounds.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
Are you optimistic or pessimistic about Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge? What do you think of the potential of this and other new hotels at Walt Disney World? Any other questions or comments? Hearing your feedback is part of the fun, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Whenever I hear about Disney adding something, I am reminded that we so-called guests are paying for it. Every year tickets prices rise, food prices rise, and resort room rates rise. My family and I have gone to Disney for the past 20 years, and we finally have had enough of the price increases and the nickel and diming of guests. What we used to pay for the AKL now covers a stay at the moderate if we go during the slower months.We no longer find Disney a value for out family vacation. We will make memories elsewhere!
In all fairness, this isn’t exclusive to Disney. Prices for everything in life are always increasing and rarely see a downward trajectory. Why would vacation at a hugely popular destination really be different? If it’s important for people to go they find a way to afford it. If it’s not, they don’t, and choose a place where they feel they get a better value. I expect Disney to charge a lot. I also expect to get amazing service and have not been disappointed yet. If they finally do drive the prices high enough that crowds begin to decrease a little that wouldn’t really hurt my feelings either though, TBH.
I do agree with you that prices are constantly rising and will rise, but I have always held Disney to a higher standard and never felt, until now, that they are trying to get as much money out of the guests as they can. I think they see dollar signs more than anything. I do not disagree that they must raise prices, but year after year? And the amount they do? I wonder about what is driving Disney execs to make the decisions they do. I don’t get the feeling when I’m there that is it the same park I have have been visiting for 30 years. More and more people are talking about how a Disney vacation is no longer affordable for the middle class family. What would Walt say? I am glad your visits are still magical for you!
I’m glad I cleared out 2 days of my stay next month, to really enjoy what Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge have to offer in their current state. That my reservation there will also coincide with dining on the last night of Artist Point’s current iteration, will only make the experience more bittersweet. As another commenter noted, the trail between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness feels amazingly secluded (with wild deer running all over the place), and is a great place (along with everything to do at Fort Wilderness itself) to spend some time away from the often frantic nature of WDW. Also, for anyone who hasn’t done the Wilderness Back Trail Adventure yet, the clock just started on its (Trails) end as well. Get on that Segway while you still can!
Let’s be Forthcoming, the Concept Art of this new Nature Inspired Resort….Is A Joke ! Looks like any Plain Jane Hotel next to a suburban Industrial Park !
“It seems the approach is to choose the most middle-of-the-road offerings as possible so as to not alienate those with bland tastes.”
Even more to the probable point:
1. They assume up & coming millennials~the next wave of financial power, which has edged out baby boomers~ actually prefer “modern.” This is merely a justification for cheapness.
While it’s true cluttered is 80s, feels dirtier, etc., a well-designed project, complete with loads of appropriate, well-scaled details is what Disney’s image & the vacation experience is built upon.
2. They assume the general populace these days knows no difference between thoughtful, thorough, great design and the generic hotel down the street. So why bother spending that money?
The answer is that we humans all recognize and are lifted by great design, including small details, on some level. Those less exposed to good taste might only sense it subconsciously, but they, too are affected. Those who consciously note and appreciate all the “lesser” details available to explore and discover appreciate the efforts of careful designers & craftspeople. I assume they think their audience is far too low-scale to care.
Disney’s stock and trade has always been an excellent level of high-concept product, thus their repeat and loyal audiences, whether in movies, song, parks or resorts.
To witness them selling out with lesser quality attractions, built on low-level, strictly sensory value, as well as removing the many nice, charming touches that has always made Disney a warm otherworldly destination is just sad.
Disney, you are underestimating your audience. We love design! Please bring back the artists.
I think it’s Disney on the cheap — once again. Cheap in them spending $ or ideas but not cheap for guests. And it’s going to destroy the area. More and more I wonder how much I’ll be going back to Disney based on all the money grubbing and less customer service. I can actually vacation in Europe for less than Disney so do the math. Shame on the greed.
TOM: Please date your articles with date at top so we know how old these are. Some it’s difficult to determine. Thanks!
Amen. Go to Paris and sit on the banks of the Seine instead of watching the 20 year old movie in the France pavilion at Epcot.
I’m glad to see it sounds like there is going to be a mix of DVC and regular resort rooms. I don’t plan far enough ahead for a DVC membership to ever make sense for me. And I like the sound of this line from Disney’s announcement: “fun and even surprising accommodation types”–sounds like they have some interesting imagineering in mind for themed hotel rooms.
Once again you’ve expressed my sentiments exactly Tom. I’m guessing Imagineering has little to do with this in terms of what we ordinarily associate as being uniquely creative. I’m also guessing lmagineering has many great hotel related ideas we’ve never been privy to. Rather, the concept drawing we see here more appears to be standardly architectural with a gimmick theme thrown in accompanying an elaborate obtuse “backstory” that only future Disney minutia experts will remember. Looks to be, so far at least, only one step above the anorexic Dolphin/Swan addition that’s coming…
Ditto. You nailed it, Tom.
I think it would be a great idea to make the new hotel based off of another National Park lodge. As wilderness lodge is based off of Old Faithful lodge. There are plenty of wonderful parks across the US that have wonderful designed lodges that would give different design than Wilderness lodge but pay tribute to the national parks and the wilderness. Or even better build one that looks like Banff Fairmont hotel in Canada! In my opinion this is a better direction than vanilla hotel that will do nothing to enhance the area.
We have been DVC members since the Beach Club was created and so far we “LOVE IT” with not many issues along the way. We started out camping at Fort Wilderness and graduated to the BC for our resort of choice. FW has always been a favorite of ours and have stayed in their Villas years ago but not recently since the new transition. Though this new project looks incredible I’m not real sure the design keeps up with the “Wilderness ” style and design which we feel will distract from the original concept of the the wilderness. The modern design may be way out of place with the total rustic appearance of what we so fondly remember. So why can’t Disney maintain their original theme ? from what we see wouldn’t this fit better elsewhere with a more”modern” theme ?
Maybe the pool area could still be called River Country and have slides and water play areas that pay tribute to the water park that closed…Wish I could see River Country even in its current state before they tear it all down. I used to read about River Country as a kid and always wanted to visit…Stayed at Wilderness Lodge for the first time over the weekend and really enjoyed how isolated it felt.
Surprisingly negative outlook to what I think is a very positive development for Walt Disney World.
I really wonder how much longer DVC can continue. I seriously investigated buying in at Copper Ridge for $18,000 for 100 points-absolutely impossible to amortize it over 10 years and even 20 is very so so – and, the way things are going at the parks and the headache and uncertainty associated with booking at DVC resorts, do I really want to be committed to that even with the option to possibly resell the contract at a later date.? I wonder how long it will go before there is a massive class-action against Disney by the holders of DVC contracts. At that point the whole DVC mess collapses and probably that day, and wake-up can’t come soon enough to Disney’s senior management.
Lets just hope this never happens. I’ve been a DVC member for 16 years now, so far no problems, Wilderness lodge, beacch club, and Saratoga is our 3 deeds. The only big problem is trying to get into Grand Californian, can never get more than a day or two. Disney land please wake up. Paradise pier is to much for our points
From the folks who are bringing you guardians of the galaxy at Epcot! If they didn’t see how incongruous and out of place that monstrosity is at Epcot I have very little hope for the Fort Wilderness campground area. They really have a low opinion of their guests.
I am once again gutted to here that it will be a ‘Vacation Club’ Property. I am a Brit and love visiting Disney but have had an absolutely nightmare trying to book a three week stay for next year (2019) at the Saratoga. We starting our booking in April 2018 only to find that the DVC properties aren’t available to book – we unfortunately still haven’t been able to book there, due to the length of time we would like to stay and purely because we want to be a a DVC property – where inventory didn’t open up for the dates we want to stay ( whilst booking from the UK travel side of Disney) – but these properties are advertised on the web as being better suited for bigger parties (we are 3 adults 3 kids under 10 staying three weeks in need of washing facilities and fridge etc) and so we really feel the need to stay in these kind of properties when visiting Disney. However, due to them being part of the DVC collective – you can’t book them like the other hotels at Disney – I would love to feel excited about new Villas that are being built – these not being the only ones – but if they have the same problem as now for non DVC members booking these hotels – I am actually gutted about the fact that they keep adding to the DVC properties – and not facilitating people who would like to stay for three weeks at a time. Thanks for your update Tom.
PS to hear sorry!!
You nailed it. Everything you said was, unfortunately, spot on.
No benefit of the doubt needed. Fort Wilderness will be ruined for the vaguely reminiscent of Frank Lloyd Wright Ramada.
It’s funny. I look at that concept art and I’m like, “Ooo, pretty!” It totally reminds me of real world luxury hotel renderings for publicity, the beauty shot I guess.
But when I chose my upcoming hotel at WDW, I actually went with a place with character and theme over generically “pretty” – even though it was more expensive. (In case you’re wondering, it’s AKL.) I honestly didn’t even consider anything less themed. (Other option was Wilderness Lodge).
The idea of going to a resort that could keep me occupied for hours outside the parks makes me happy! Since I’ve been to WDW a few times, I’m no longer an “all rides all the time” guest – in fact the most important thing I want to do on my next trip is wander around and see all the details that my more “Eticket only” style touring self missed.
So I guess unless this new “Nature” themed resort has the kind of details as some of my favorites at WDW I’ll probably pass 🙂 interested to find out though!
Could we hope for something along the lines of Fallingwater by Frank Lloyd Wright?
Let’s hope!!
Let’s hope!!
I’m sure some high dollar bean counter at Disney said one day that they needed to increase the revenue per guest per square foot of property. So, what better way than to “stack” people on top of one another in the form of high rise towers for the new resorts? This way they can have multiple hundreds of guests paying multiple hundreds of dollars per day on a fairly small piece of real estate (as compared to the number of guests per square foot of property used for Ft Wilderness and the campground areas. Oh bother.., but what to do about the issue of all those multiple hundreds of cars that these guests will show up in? That will use up more square footage of property that does not have paying guests on them. Eureka ! We will just start charging them for the privilege of parking on our property while they spend there money in our parks and resorts!