Reflections Lakeside Lodge at Disney World
Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge is a planned nature-inspired resort for the former River Country water park location along the shore of Bay Lake between Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness at Walt Disney World. This development would be mixed use, with both hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. (Updated May 9, 2024.)
Originally announced back in October 2018, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge will “be a celebration of Walt Disney’s lifelong love and respect for nature” with more than 900 hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas. Reflections resort was slated to be the 16th Disney Vacation Club property, part of a significant expansion on the hotel side of Walt Disney World. That plan would have brought a total of more than 1,700 new hotel rooms and Disney Vacation Club villas online over four years.
Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge was further elaborated upon at the 2019 D23 Expo, and it was billed as one of the “most unique resorts ever built” at Walt Disney World. Concept art was shared of the novel accommodations, including both treehouse suites and waterfront A-frame cabins that would be available at the resort. Reflections — A Disney Lakeside Lodge would also feature a restaurant inspired by Princess and the Frog, located “along the bayou of Bay Lake.”
May 9, 2024 Update: Let’s start by bringing you up to speed, as not much has happened with Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge in roughly 4 years. Back when the parks closed and all construction stopped, Walt Disney World mothballed the construction site for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.
The project was effectively cancelled and crews on site removed concrete and rebar. At that point, pretty much all that had occurred was site clearing and staging for construction to begin. The project had yet to begin foundation work, let alone vertical construction. Fast-forward four years, and it’s essentially an empty parcel. The future home of Reflections is still visible from California Grill or even the boat en route to Wilderness Lodge–it’s the big empty area amidst the trees.
Today’s development is that Walt Disney Imagineering has filed a request with the South Florida Water Management District to extend one of the permits related to ‘Project 89’ by an additional 5 years. This is one of the big picture ‘permit packages’ for the proposed resort, pertaining to construction of the resort and (as the name suggests) water management resulting from the project.
Disney’s request indicates that the project is not complete because it was shut down due to the COVID closure. Interestingly, Imagineering states that those conditions “delayed the completion of this project.” Delayed is technically correct, but not the word I’d use to describe the status of Reflections. Disney deleted past references to it and hasn’t publicly mentioned it in over 4 years. It’s as if Reflections never existed, which is more consistent with the Play Pavilion than CommuniCore Hall (the latter of which was delayed; the former cancelled).
This also isn’t the first Reflections permit that Disney has sought to extend. Last fall, Florida granted Walt Disney Imagineering a 5-year extension on another permit related to the construction of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. That permit will now expire on May 31, 2028. That permit was for the STOLport Site–near the former Walt Disney World Airport, with STOLport standing for Short Take-Off and Landing. Reflections wouldn’t be built on the STOLport site, but it would act as a convenient staging ground located between the TTC and Fort Wilderness. That extension was less conclusive that Reflections would be revived than this one, as it also could have served as a staging site for another project, such as the DVC Cabins at Fort Wilderness.
Since reporting on the last permit extension, we’ve received credible rumors (plural) that this lodge concept is being revived. I was skeptical at first, given all of the Disney Vacation Club projects that are currently underway and will be actively selling in the next few years (see below). However, I’ve heard enough to be convinced that Disney’s plan is to proceed with plans on this parcel.
My expectation (and this part is speculation–not rumor) is that Disney will wait to announce until it’s strategically advantageous from the perspective of DVC sales. Disney is very methodical with its Disney Vacation Club approach–longtime fans may recall over a decade ago when Bay Lake Tower was going vertical and Disney still pretended it didn’t exist.
Don’t be surprised if something similar happens here to avoid cannibalizing Cabins at Fort Wilderness sales (conversely, the lodge might be viewed as an asset to that–and announced earlier as a result). The bottom line is that this isn’t necessarily a 2024 D23 Expo reveal. It’ll happen when it’s most conducive to selling more DVC. If it happens. It could be at the D23 Expo in August 2024, but it also could be tomorrow or via press release on some random weekday in April 2025.
Also don’t be surprised if there are material changes to the appearance of the lodge or its name. Again, purely speculative. But with so much passage of time, different leadership both at Imagineering and Parks & Resorts, and shifting trends in hotel design, it seems inevitable that what we first saw in 2018 will change to some degree by the time it opens almost a decade later.
In the intervening years since Reflections was mothballed/cancelled/delayed indefinitely, a trio of new Disney Vacation Club projects in the Magic Kingdom resort area has been announced, indirectly replacing Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge. The first and smallest of these was at Walt Disney World’s flagship resort, converting one outlying building to new Resort Studios at the Grand Floridian. That project is done and available for sale already sold out.
The next of these is the New DVC Tower at Disney’s Polynesian Village Resort (pictured above), which is currently under construction and is slated to open in late 2024 at Walt Disney World. Based on the incredibly quick pace with which that expansion is being built, there’s no reason to believe it’ll be delayed. This will be a license to print money for DVC, as everyone loves the Poly. It’ll sell out fast, regardless of Reflections (meaning the latter will not cannibalize Poly sales).
Finally, there’s the Cabins at Disney’s Fort Wilderness Resort – A Disney Vacation Club Resort (concept art below). These are slated to start opening in July 2024, before the Poly tower. This is the biggest question mark–does announcing Reflections help or hinder sales of the Cabins at Fort Wilderness? (The answer probably depends upon how Disney treats them.)
The other reason it’s worth drawing attention to these projects is because there are a lot of them. In addition to the WDW additions, the Villas at Disneyland Hotel is now open and being actively sold. Then there’s Disney’s Riviera Resort and Aulani in Hawaii, the latter of which has been on sale for years now; there’s a decent chance Aulani will never sell out of DVC points. This is all significant because it means a ton of points being sold simultaneously, and numerous resorts competing with one another for the attention of buyers.
Based on past precedent, it would thus seem unlikely that Disney Vacation Club will resume Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge anytime soon. They’ve started too many projects and have too much for sale right now already. However, it’s not just the permits. That alone could be ignored or explained away as pertaining to another project, housekeeping, or Imagineering wanting to keep its options open. There’s enough smoke here that there’s probably fire.
Reflections resuming in 2024 would’ve been deemed crazy even ~5 years ago, back when Disney Vacation Club didn’t announce the next project (and literally denied the existence of construction occurring in plain view), but a lot has changed since. Back then, DVC tried to space its additions so they wouldn’t directly competing with one another. Announcements for the next DVC property didn’t start until sales were healthy and had progressed for the previous one.
Things have changed more recently, and Disney Vacation Club has had several properties for sale simultaneously for the last several years. There hasn’t been hesitation in announcing the next big expansion or starting construction–it seems like there’s been a philosophy change. Perhaps now Disney Vacation Club is fine with a larger number of properties being available for sale, with the thought process that more variety equals greater consumer choice and a higher likelihood of selling memberships. (After all, they’re all going to sell out eventually…well, maybe minus Aulani!)
Another possibility is that Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge is on the precipice of resuming, but not as a Disney Vacation Club project. At least, not right away. Walt Disney World needs more hotel inventory, too. There’s nothing to say this previously mixed-use development couldn’t start as a hotel project, but be built with the long-term intentions of “conversion” to Disney Vacation Club when point supply and demand dictated as much. That does seem very plausible to me, and might be what Walt Disney World opts to do. (In that case, I wonder how they message the ‘nature’ of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge.)
Regardless of what happens in the near-term, it’s pretty safe to say that the Reflections site will be developed at some point down the road. Walt Disney World only has so much prime parcels for resorts, and this is one of them. Not only that, but a lot of the site prepwork was already done and it’s still in pretty good condition. It just makes sense for construction to happen here in the future, and my guess would be that it starts before 2030.
Whether that’s Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge or a totally new concept is anyone’s guess. The further removed we get from the prior mothballing/delay/cancellation, the more likely it is that Disney will revisit both the name and the concept. Even if this project were re-announced tomorrow, I think the odds are pretty good that the concept art would look materially different and the name wouldn’t be the same.
Turning to my original commentary, I love Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness. I’m a Disney Vacation Club member. In theory, Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge seems perfectly tailored to some of my favorite things about Walt Disney World. I want to love the idea of the River Country parcel finally being redeveloped, instead of rotting in plain sight. I’m truly hopeful for the best here.
Unfortunately, like pretty much every Fort Wilderness fan, I’m very apprehensive about this Disney Vacation Club project (well, mixed-use, but presumably mostly DVC). Part of what makes Fort Wilderness special is that it’s been relatively undisturbed by time, and is one of the last bastions of “Vacation Kingdom of the World” era of WDW.
It’s almost remarkable how different Fort Wilderness feels from the rest of Walt Disney World—even its neighbor, Wilderness Lodge. It’s almost as if Walt Disney World leadership has forgotten about Fort Wilderness, and it hasn’t seen the same fiscal mandates, changes in emphasis, or character as every other resort over the last couple decades. In large part, it’s been doing its thing, more or less unchanged since the 1990s.
There’s a very legitimate concern, especially after seeing how the Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge projects at Wilderness Lodge unfolded, that any expansion at or around Fort Wilderness will destroy the primitive and secluded characteristics of the campground that give it so much appeal. After all, this is a campground with wilderness right in the name–the environment is the heart and soul of Fort Wilderness.
The development of Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge doesn’t necessarily have to destroy the tranquil and secluded atmosphere of Fort Wilderness, but that seems like a very distinct possibility. Disney’s recent approach to developing hotels adjacent to existing resorts doesn’t inspire much confidence, and if there’s a ham-fisted approach when clearing land or an overzealous mentality when it comes to the size or proximity of the resort to the campground, it will be incredibly detrimental to Fort Wilderness.
As for the design, only a couple pieces of concept art have been released, and they’re nothing special. I don’t want to rush to judgment here, as I think there is potential for this to end up being interesting once more is released, but right now it looks like a fairly generic hotel with some modern rustic flourishes.
On the plus side, Wimberly Allison Tong & Goo (WATG) is the lead designer for Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge, and they have a very good track record with Disney. They designed the original Grand Floridian Resort & Spa, along with Disney hotels in Tokyo, Paris, and Hong Kong.
If this were a decade or two ago, I might be more deferential to Disney with regard to this concept art. However, the last several years have shown that Walt Disney World is very hit or miss with resort development and redesigns, skewing towards boring designs. It seems the approach is to choose the most middle-of-the-road offerings as possible so as to not alienate those with bland tastes.
When you compare Walt Disney World resorts built before the mid-1990s to ones built or redesigned in the last few years, there’s generally a clear division. Contemporary projects are often interchangeable with real world Holiday Inns or other mid-tier chained brand hotels.
Look at the difference between BoardWalk Inn or Beach Club and the new Gran Destino Tower at Coronado or Disney’s Riviera Resort. Don’t get me wrong–I like both for the amenities they offer, luxuriousness, and room designs. However, the exteriors of both leave a lot to be desired, and neither are exactly exemplars of themed design. (Admittedly, they have both grown on me a lot, but I still wish they were more ornate or unique.)
One explanation is that Disney wants to make things as crowd-pleasing as possible so as to not alienate any potential customers. The thing about this approach is that when you try to appeal to everyone, you end up appealing to no one.
Another explanation is that Imagineering’s talents are spread too thin. I know some readers might only follow the projects at Walt Disney World, but every single property around the world has huge projects in various stages of development or construction.
In the past when less was occurring simultaneously, maybe some top-tier Imagineering talent who “got” Disney’s distinct approach to hotels worked on a resort project. Now? Maybe they’re mostly designers who view working for WDI as “just another job” no different than Best Western or IHG.
Along those same lines, with so many projects in development, it’s entirely possible–if not probable–that leadership in the Parks & Resorts division is trying to trim the budget from each one, cutting aspects or details viewed as superfluous.
The problem is that those leaders are not creatives, and their experience is often in consumer products or other division of the company. They have absolutely no insight into what details are actually superfluous, and what are necessary for reinforcing theme or creating a sense of immersion.
Ultimately, more concept art could be released that’s really good. The project could employ a deft hand when developing around Fort Wilderness in a way that doesn’t damage that landscape. (Disney, just think of how much you could pat yourselves on the back by utilizing eco-friendly and sustainable construction practices–it’d be worth it in the PR alone!) It could end up being really good–a true tribute to both Walt Disney’s love of nature, but the spirit of River Country, which was never coming back anyway.
I’m cautiously optimistic that’s what could end up happening, but I think it’s equally likely that we’ll get a generically modern and vaguely rustic design. It’s also more likely that instead of eco-friendly construction that preserves the natural beauty and wilderness of the area, we get excessive tree clearing for the construction, and an end product akin to Copper Creek and Boulder Ridge in terms of wide walkways and bare grounds.
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YOUR THOUGHTS
Are you optimistic or pessimistic about Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge? What do you think of the potential of this and other new hotels at Walt Disney World? Any other questions or comments? Hearing your feedback is part of the fun, so please share your thoughts below in the comments!
Sorry to hear of this, I’m sure there are plenty of other places to build another hotel. I would rather see them add more sites and a pool to Fort wilderness camp ground. Yes the camp ground is not a big money making hotel, but it does unique and sometimes it’s not always just about the money.
I’m a little conflicted here. These days, visiting Disney resorts is the thing I like most about WDW (indeed, it’s the thing that keeps me going to Florida rather than taking another trip to Tokyo..!). And I say that as someone who is not a DVC member and has never stayed on-site (except S&D and Bonnet Creek). So each new resort gives me a new bit of “Disney” to explore.
But resorts are nothing without a feeling of relative seclusion, walking trails and nice views. And though free space within WDW is finite, the demand to buy more (new) timeshares directly from Disney appears insatiable. Things won’t improve until the first DVC contracts start expiring. So I’m not really sure what the endgame is for WDW when they run out of space for new timeshares.
My prediction is that the definition of “on property” will become whatever Disney says it is (places outside the existing WDW area with “magical” buses taking you into Disney), and depressingly that FW won’t exist at all in 20 years. The land it occupies is just too prime and not enough people value the isolation and solitude of nature. (To some extent, I can’t blame Disney – they aren’t a public service or a national park – but it’s still disappointing).
While I’ve thought there was room for a moderately sized resort between the Wilderness Lodge and Fort Wilderness, I’m afraid that some of these proposals look like they’re going to make this new resort adjoining or even sharing facilities with one or both resorts. That is a bad idea.
So sad to see these monstrosities being built that lack any real thoughtful theming. The high rise hotels remind me of Myrtle Beach not Disney. Such an eye sore. Hopefully the new one by the Wilderness Lodge will at least be hidden with trees.
You know what would be an amazing resort? A Japanese themed resort surrounded with beautiful Japanese gardens. Just saying. This one looks lame from the concept art.
Nice post, Tom. There isn’t much I can add without lacing into expletives about the pigs who run the company today and what they have done — and are doing — to WDW (and DL as well with the tumor that is Star Wars Land). … They have destroyed the WL (I don’t care how faux upscale the cabins on the lake are. They never should have been built.) and now they will take care of that one last piece of my childhood. WDW will simply be a giant timeshare, hotel and McMansion development with overrated (vastly) theme parks as ancillary parts of the business. And fans will eat it up. Because most fans today are like most Americans, dumb as dirt. If the Bobs, Chappie and the Weatherman, want them to like something, they will. I am so beyond disgusted with the whole deal. And really … let’s not give them the benefit of the doubt. Let’s look at the last 15 years (or more) and be realistic about how they operate their business — like they are closing tomorrow. But the addicts will keep showing up. Hell, I do … wonder if Thea will be comping me a character meal when I complain about the destruction of Artist Point?
Settle down Francis. Take your meds and everything will be ok.
No, no, it won’t. … WDW is an offing disaster. Tom can’t come out and say that because he’ll harm his business. I don’t have such concerns. They are destroying the place and adding crap like Star Wars doesn’t get me hot and bothered. Two dead theme parks. Greenbelts destroyed across property. And resorts that are being dumbed down to appeal to the most basic people. No, nothing is OK.
As a west coaster it’s frustrating to see all the hotel improvements and new properties going in at WDW. It was a bummer when the new potential DVC property in Anaheim was permanently scrapped earlier this week. I hope to see some traction on this in the future!
Thanks, Tom. I’m saddened that this will likely mean the end of the Nature Trail between Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge. One of my best Disney memories was taking the kids there on a “non-parks” day when they were 2 and 4 years old. A fun lunch at WL (Whispering Canyon Cafe), then walking the trail (with kiddos in the stroller) to Fort Wilderness where we did the pony rides, let them run around and play on the playground, and shopped a bit at Settlement Trading Post before strolling back to our car at WL. Much of the walk truly felt like we were in a rural Florida state park and not a mega theme park resort.
I’m sure there will ultimately still be some sort of trail between all 3 resorts but I can’t see any way they’ll be able to maintain the wild/rustic aspect and expanses of tranquil, undisturbed shoreline. It feels like a slap in the face to call this a “nature inspired” resort when you consider how much natural area will be ripped up during construction (beyond the footprint of the resort buildings themselves, there will no doubt be a massive parking lot, bus stations, etc.).
The concept art for the hotel is meh but what I really, really, really hope they do is a nod to River Country in the pool design.
My thought exactly! A great opportunity to incorporate some River Country flavor into the pool.
I hope that they go back to the fun, unique and inspiring themes of there past resorts such as Port Orleans, Wilderness Lodge, Beach Club, etc… All of those older resorts have a unique personality and feel about them that makes me want to try them all. These newer resorts look bland and forgettable. It’s such a stark contrast between the new and old. I hope this new resort is amazing. I also hope that they do NOT build that ugly cube hotel near the Swan and Dolphin.
As soon as I saw your headline, I thought how fitting the site would be for something akin the the Parc Nature Paris that is near Disneyland Paris. Sort of step between Fort Wilderness and a Wilderness Lodge. But alas, when I saw the concept art, it doesn’t look different at all from what the Riviera is looking like. Sigh. So much wasted potential for something great Disney.
I agree Tom! The design is not on par with other projects built in the past like you talked about when Wilderness lodge and Grand Floridian were built. The new hotels or expansions look so uninspiring and makes me think I could be staying at any Marriott or Westin location around the U. S.
This Design I hope changes a lot. It makes me think of what a Starbucks Hotel would look like if they entered the Hotel market!! Not Disney Quality in My opinion!
What I’m more concerned about is the number of rooms that Disney is adding without really exapanding the parks themselves. How many more people do they think they can shove into the exsisting parks?
I agree 100 percent!!
With 2-3 new rides per park that does not increase capacity by much at all.
I think that is one reason Disney is changing all the prices per Day trying to get every day as even as possible but at some point you will start seeing max capacity closures at the gates in the next few years if we don’t have a Recession. You can’t keep having these year over year gains in attendance without hitting max occupancy of the parks.
This is THE problem with Disney over the past 20 years. They don’t build NEW attractions, they just replace or retheme old attractions. Star Wars seems to actually buck this trend SLIGHTLY, but not nearly enough. So tired of seeing overlays, replacements, and “plussing”. Give us some new attractions that add capacity!!!
Considering the fact that Fort Wilderness campsites are booked solid for nearly every day of the year, I think a better use of the old River Country property would have been to expand Fort Wilderness itself, adding many more campsites and maybe another store, or even better, a proper food court. Maybe we should hope that Disney doesn’t turn its eyes toward Fort Wilderness, but since it is nearly impossible to make a reservation there, especially a last-minute reservation, and given the amazing popularity of camping these days, it seems that Disney is missing a golden opportunity, in my humble opinion.
I’m hoping that it will have more mid-century modern touches, per the rendering, than “generic modern.” This actually looks more like Sarasota classical architecture, which started in the mid-century and has a true Florida aesthetic. Many homes/buildings in this style have the courtyard-style entry for an indoor/outdoor living that could provide a great opportunity for a “nature inspired” resort. Moreover, it would fall into the time when Walt was involved in the nature specials, and could harken back to that era for an entire generation (or several) that are unfamiliar with Uncle Walt in their living rooms.
Of course, you could be completely correct in your assertions that this is just another attempt to become more generic. That said, there are several of the refurbished rooms that I love. While I have always loved the great resorts of the 90’s, they were definitely in need of a refresh.
On an entirely separate note, we ate breakfast at Ale & Compass and found their brunch to be an amazing value ($23, includes beverages, an entrée–which are priced $14-$19 each, and the buffet, which features great pastries, fruit, cheeses, charcuterie, smoked salmon, and smoked trout dip… no gross eggs here!). I know you weren’t big on the bland them, but seriously this brunch was enough for two meals for my family and was an absolute delight.
I hope you’re right about the design influences. The concept art isn’t really much to go on either way–it could be more stylized.
I’d say I’m about 50/50 on the recent refurbs/reimaginings. Some have been well done, others have been boring. They all have been necessary from a refresh perspective. What worries me is the inconsistency of those, coupled with the uninspired look of the recent (current) new builds.
Hopefully your optimism is well placed!
I sincerely hope that concept art is a placeholder because it looks more like “Built next to O’Hare Airport amongst the fields of Concrete” than “nature-inspired”. Unfortunately I’m in agreement with your cynicism – Fort Wilderness has been allowed to exist in a semi-detached state for some time now, but with the ever-expanding eyes of ‘prosperity’ and ‘opportunity’ turning its way, that semi-detached state is likely to quickly become a thing of the past.
Hopefully we can both be surprised at an ultimate design that is innovative, imaginative, and actually carries out the proposed theme.
Our favorite place to stay at WDW are the Cabins at the Campground. I couldn’t agree with you more in hoping that Disney does not damage that resort for the sake of something shiny and new.
I stayed at Ft. Wilderness with my family on my first Disney trip in 1978 and remember River Country. I’ve continued to love Ft. Wilderness ever since. I want to give Disney the benefit of the doubt but I’m nervous with Disney’s track record on other recent projects. I agree that Ft. Wilderness has largely felt untouched and that’s a lot of what I like about it. It’s quiet, it has a community feel, and the natural setting are what keep me coming back. I hope they don’t take that away for another bland DVC resort.
You described exactly what we love best about Fort Wilderness – it seems as if it’s remained almost untouched since it first opened. The true spirit of Disney World. There’s a little bit of Walt there, if one can presume to say such a thing. My dad camped there as a teenager, I first went there as a 20-something, and now plan to take my own kids. There’s nothing else like it at WDW!
Hopefully Disney gets the message and hires architects that can blend their greed with nature.